Control of Documents

[Jeri Mackay]

Hi,

In setting up our documentation I am going back and forth with a couple other managers on having ALL company documentation part of our QMS. What scares me about this is we are having trouble keeping up with what it will take to pass a registration audit let alone putting extra's in there.

Yes, in a perfect world I would like to have everyone think of our QMS as a business management system which would incorporate everything including documentation (ie travel policies, accounting procedures etc...) the company does. I know it is a chicken way out but I would like to separate our "corporate/departmental" procedures from what the standard requires at this time.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Greg B]

Hi,

In setting up our documentation I am going back and forth with a couple other managers on having ALL company documentation part of our QMS. What scares me about this is we are having trouble keeping up with what it will take to pass a registration audit let alone putting extra's in there.

Yes, in a perfect world I would like to have everyone think of our QMS as a business management system which would incorporate everything including documentation (ie travel policies, accounting procedures etc...) the company does. I know it is a chicken way out but I would like to separate our "corporate/departmental" procedures from what the standard requires at this time.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Jeri,

What is stopping you? It is your system you can include the parts you want in the certification (within Reason). Our Commercial Department (finance) is not within our certificates scope nor is our maintenance department. Neither of these departments has a Direct (wait for the action on this comment) impact on our products. We do not include Corporate Policies etc in our QMS. We do not have a procedure on how to apply for travel in our QMS. All of these things are covered under HR or Commercial etc but they are not audited and therfore not included (directly) in our QMS. The only documents I have in my QMS are the QM, Procedures, Work Instructions, Specifications, Records and Forms. Nothing else. Maps, Charts, Plant Layouts etc are CONTROLLED by other departments. I ask them to keep them up to date and show them some systems for managing them but they are not part of the QMS.
I do not even have standards as part of the QMS. Who says I have to?? Not everything has to be Revsion Controlled. If we wanted, we could have a total of Six (6) Procedures in our document system plus a Quality Manual and Policy and that would almost suffice but it would be a mistake to burn our bridges.

P.S: You can bet that as soon as those other managers pass their documents onto your system they will not have another thing to do with them. You will be forever chasing them to assure the revsion status etc.

If you want a documentation system that will help you manage your paper (or even eliminate it) go to http://dms.markuswestphal.de/about.html they offer a FREE Document Register (we use it) and it allows Safety, Env, HR, Commercial etc to manage their documents also.

Greg B

 

[noboxwine]

Strive for Perfect World

Hi,

Yes, in a perfect world I would like to have everyone think of our QMS as a business management system which would incorporate everything including documentation (ie travel policies, accounting procedures etc...) the company does.

Jeri- You may soon see, as I did, trying to manage 2 systems is non value added. Whether or not a document is necessarily part of the Quality System, if it is something used by the people everyday, it should be controlled and easy to access. As you said, make it a Business Mgmt System--well said ! We are moving ALL documents to our QMS Intranet and those that are applicable for audits will be subject; those that dont, wont. (Keep in mind, Balance Sheets and Income Statements, etc. are not a part of it, as that is priviledged info). It really makes life so much easier for everyone and would highly recommend it. Anyone in the company can go to one location to find everything they need ! Voila !Good luck and let us know !

 

[Mike S.]

I went thru this battle a few years back. Every company is different, but I KNEW that here the reason this manager wanted ALL documents (like travel policy, accounting procedures, HR policies, etc.) to be under QMS formal, controlled doc. control was so someone else would be responsible for managing what they could not. They were forever mishandling documents -- no discipline -- and just wanted someone else to do their work for them. No dice. I offered to help them and to teach them how to control documents correctly, etc. but they were not interested in learning -- they just wanted to pass off work. This would have made my life miserable and we would have failed audits because they would still have kept their bad habits (losing controlled copies, making unauthorized changes, not following the documented procedures, not retaining records as required, etc.). Had they been willing to learn and cooperate, okay, but if you cannot get complete serious cooperation from these folks do not let them make their problems your problems. It is hard enough in most companies to properly keep required documents. JMO.