Experimental Hybrid Cars Get Up to 250 Mpg

B

Bill Pflanz

#11
db said:
Okay, Tim, so let me see if I got this straight. I may save a bunch of money on gasoline, however, my electric bill will increase (no net gain?). Of course, if everyone follows suit, then the law of supply and demand will result in electricity prices increasing and gasoline prices decreasing. This will cause folks to jump from electric, back to gas and the see-saw ride begins.
Tim's analysis is correct in that energy is energy. The difference is in the cost of production and the related efficiency for converting it into useable energy. If a significant number of hybrids entered the market place, it should drive down the price of crude oil assuming that crude oil is not used to make the electricity. With the increase in knowledge and improvements in nuclear power, the use of electricity could result in less crude oil usage from that source.

We ran out of $3 oil in 1973, then we ran out of $12 and then $30 oil. Now we may be out of $40 oil. That is different then being out of oil entirely. There are analysts who are predicting oil to stabilize back to $40-50 oil as production increases and demand decreases as a result of the current $60+ price. Oil producers seem to be willing to invest to find oil at a cost of $25 and expect to get a reasonable return even at $35-40 per barrel.

There are some geopolitical implications of choosing one form of energy over another. Reducing crude oil usage will have a signficant impact on not only the Middle East but also countries like Mexico and Venezuela. Less money in the oil producing countires may result in more instability in the world rather than less since they may not have an economic replacement for that wealth.

While we are picking on journalists, I find it humorous that the news people keep showing a drum whenever they talk about a barrel of oil. A barrel is 42 gallons and is never stored in drums. Oil is moved by pipeline, ships, barges, and trucks but not by drum.

Bill Pflanz
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#13
Jennifer Kirley said:
To be fair, I am pretty sure the editorial team places downward ("dumbing") pressure on reporting in places or subjects where they think their readers won't understand the brainy stuff.
I know from personal experience that that sort of thing happens, but it doesn't account for the many times I've seen journalists get the facts wrong because they didn't understand what they were writing about.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#14
JSW05 said:
I know from personal experience that that sort of thing happens, but it doesn't account for the many times I've seen journalists get the facts wrong because they didn't understand what they were writing about.
You're quite right.

I've come close to just settling for getting the apostrophe usage right.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#15
Jennifer Kirley said:
Here's a site that does a better job of explaining the details than the reporter did. http://www.hybridcars.com/plugin-hybrids.html
Excellent link Jennifer!
Plug-In Hybrids

EV button found on Japanese and European Prius

The "EV" button, found on the Prius in Japan and Europe, allows the driver to "encourage" extended driving in all-electric mode. Though intriguing, there is no evidence Toyota plans to produce plug-in hybrids.

How would you like to run your car for the equivalent of fifty cents a gallon with much lower emissions? Impossible, right?

Not according to Dr. Andy Frank, Professor of Engineering at University of California at Davis and Felix Kramer of The California Cars Initiative (CalCars). Frank and Kramer are leading a campaign to encourage the development of the"gas-optional" or “plug-in” hybrid (PHEV), which they claim will yield dramatic gains in fuel economy.

Just when the American public is finally starting to understand that you don’t have to plug hybrid cars in, here comes the plug-in hybrid. With the plug-in hybrid, you still will not be required to plug the car in, but you’ll have the option. As a result, drivers will get all the benefits of an electric car, without the biggest drawback: limited range. You'll be able to go all-electric for the ninety percent of your driving which takes place close to home. When the electric charge runs out, a downsized gas engine kicks in and your car drives like a regular hybrid.

Staying in Stealth Mode

Most hybrid car drivers enjoy keeping the car in all-electric “stealth” mode. Prius and Escape drivers can keep this going when the car is in slow stop-and-go traffic. Plug-ins would extend the stealth mode for the lion’s share of our local driving.

* A hybrid gets about twice the fuel economy of a conventional car
* A plug-in hybrid will get about twice the fuel economy of a hybrid

What are the naysayers saying about plug-in hybrids? And how do Frank and Kramer respond?

* The extra batteries will weigh too much.
Response: The extra weight of the batteries will be offset somewhat by the reduced weight of the gas engine. At high speeds in particular, fuel efficiency is affected primarily by aerodynamics—the added weight of the equivalent of one or two additional passenger reduces MPG only minimally.

* The extra batteries will cost too much.
Response: New, more powerful and cheaper NiMH or Li-Ion batteries will keep additional costs to only a few thousand dollars above today’s hybrids. Recharging will take place mostly at night during cheaper off-peak hours. Counting purchases, fuel and service, total lifetime cost of ownership will be lower than a gas car.

* Producing power from the grid (to charge the cars) will produce additional emissions.
Response: What the industry calls "well-to-wheel" emissions (including greenhouse gases) for grid-powered vehicles is far lower than gasoline, even for the national power grid (which is 50% coal). Cars charging off-peak will use power from plants that can't turn off at night. Plus, many parts of the country get most of their power from cleaner sources like natural gas and hydropower. Finally, plug-in hybrids recharged from rooftop photovoltaic systems will be zero emission.

Future Benefit of Vehicle-to-Grid Connection

Someday, the larger battery packs used in plug-in hybrids could juggle power back and forth from the car to your household current. If adopted on a widespread basis, a fleet of plug-in (a.k.a. "gridable" hybrids) could offer what are called "regulatory services" (keeping voltages steady, etc.) to a modernized electric power grid. It is estimated that what's called "V2G" could benefit individual car owners by as much as two to three thousand dollars per year for the use of their energy storage capacity—offsetting their purchase and operating costs.
I think a lot of the desirability of this technology has to do with a person's income, as well as how far into the future each of us feels 'personally responsible' for. For folks with a lot of money the price rarely matters - It's a short term issue - I can buy it so big deal. For others, it has to do with what one can do as a legacy in addition to 'immediate' personal benefits.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#18
I loved the cartoon, thank you! :lol:

Clearly there are people who feel very strongly about the subject, since they have gone to some effort in creating these media.

It really is a bit disturbing that such formal signage is displaying the ignorance. It's getting worse, not better I am afraid.

Oh well. Back to my marketing work of the day.
 
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