Is the competence of third party auditors improving?

[Paul Simpson]

<snip>With no personal offence, I find that the competence of the auditors is going down. <snip>

Probably in direct proportion to what clients are prepared to pay for their audits...:mg:

Now, is this a 'chicken and egg' thing?

 

[Migre]

This is an intriguing thread. To those of you who are third party auditors, how did you get started in such a role? Is it something you have drifted into in later life or would you have considered yourself to be relatively young when starting out? Is it a career path you actively pursued or did it occur 'by accident'?

 

[ChrissieO]

Andy & Ajit - both very good points made. In the UK many CB's are using more and more associates to do audits for them. This makes sense in some ways as it is cheaper for them to do this than employ their own full time auditors. It also has the advantage that they can call on a specialist in a particular field as and when needed - say they have only 30/40 days/year to do in a specific industry - they don't need to recruit for that work.

The vast majority of these associates are self-employed so it suits them too but the problem I see now is (as Andy states), day rates. Most CB's in the UK don't want to pay more than around £220/day for an associate auditor - and in some cases that includes travelling costs - especially if they are driving to the place of work.

The outcome from this is that the 'better' auditors are able to obtain more lucrative work as a consultant/trainer most of the time so they leave the audit work alone. The people who are interested in the work tend to be semi-retired people who are looking to supplement their income with some part-time work and young, new auditors who are trying to get a foot on the ladder.

It is however, a little annoying when you pay over 1K GBP to a CB for an OHSAS18001 one day assessment and the auditor arrives 1 hour late, makes and receives at least 5 phone calls regarding her current house move then leaves an hour early and did not conduct a very goodaudit IMHO.

Her knowledge and experience was probably inferior to my own, as a Lead Auditor and ISO co-ordinator I earn approx 1/10th pre tax. Am In the wrong job

 

[Stijloor]

It is however, a little annoying when you pay over 1K GBP to a CB for an OHSAS18001 one day assessment and the auditor arrives 1 hour late, makes and receives at least 5 phone calls regarding her current house move then leaves an hour early and did not conduct a very good audit IMHO.

Her knowledge and experience was probably inferior to my own, as a Lead Auditor and ISO co-ordinator I earn approx 1/10th pre tax. Am In the wrong job

Did you fork out the 1k before or after the audit?
Did you file a complaint about that poor service?

Stijloor.

 

[pkost]

If an auditor did that the NB/CB would receive a rather irate call from me. With the increasing use of self employed auditors, I would imagine my complaint would have more of an effect too

 

[Howard Atkins]

This is an intriguing thread. To those of you who are third party auditors, how did you get started in such a role? Is it something you have drifted into in later life or would you have considered yourself to be relatively young when starting out? Is it a career path you actively pursued or did it occur 'by accident'?

I got in to it after 50. I was a quality manager and decided that the QM job is the most thankless task there is so I managed using connections to get into the auditing world.
I saw it as a career change using expertise that I had.

 

[Colin]

This is an intriguing thread. To those of you who are third party auditors, how did you get started in such a role? Is it something you have drifted into in later life or would you have considered yourself to be relatively young when starting out? Is it a career path you actively pursued or did it occur 'by accident'?

Mick, in my case it was something that came along mid-career I think. I never particularly wanted to be a full-time auditor but in order to give credibility to my consultancy work and training courses, I felt it was a requirement to be actively involved in the subject.

As for age, I find it very useful to have some real life experience to fall back upon when difficult situations arise rather than quoting out of books or relying the bull**** to get me through (not that I am averse to some now and again as you may recall from the training course)!

 

[Colin]

It is however, a little annoying when you pay over 1K GBP to a CB for an OHSAS18001 one day assessment and the auditor arrives 1 hour late, makes and receives at least 5 phone calls regarding her current house move then leaves an hour early and did not conduct a very good audit IMHO.

Her knowledge and experience was probably inferior to my own, as a Lead Auditor and ISO coordinator I earn approx 1/10th pre tax. Am In the wrong job

The problem is Chrissie, you're just too good!

The other issues are down to professionalism I think. It shouldn't matter what she is being paid, she is there to do the job of a professional person and she failed to do so because she let her personal life interfere.

As for the the pay - she certainly wouldn't be getting the £1000/day herself. Are you in the wrong job? Only you can decide that but you can always call me for a chat.

 

[ChrissieO]

Are you in the wrong job? Only you can decide that but you can always call me for a chat.

Unfortunately I am getting to that age where my pension is my priority and while we are still on final salary (for now) I really couldn't warrant a complete career move.

I really should of done it 7/8 years ago when I was still in my 40s, I did consider it and was going to apply to NQA but it was at the time when all the changes were going on there so never got round to it..................may be I should get a holiday job,

Cx

 

[AndyN]

One of the challenges a CB Operations management faces is that it's difficult to detect an auditors performance, in many instances. If a peer review takes place, the auditor under review is unlikely to do things in a sloppy way. Of course, it also presupposes that the reviewer is chosen because of competence!

Audit reports don't always tell the whole story, either. What may have been missed?

We really do need to have more clients set the bar higher to flag poor behaviours and performance back to CB management for actions.