ISO 9001:2000 and CMMI v1.2 Integration and Org Deployment

[Loaf73]

Would like first say, this forum is an excellent source of info and was very happy to stumble across it. Now I can search forums, and not get introuble for doing work related duties

I work for a gov't organization, that is involved in life cycle management of products and services for a specific type of product. (Don't want to get into to much detail due to the sensitivity issues) We are involved in all aspects of LCM from R&D to deployment support.

Many moons ago we embarked on the Malcolm Baldrige Quest for Excellence Journey and have had some success with this frame work. Not to many years ago, we also embarked on the CMMI v1.1 journey for one of our centers that focused on SW development. Most recently we have begun to develop an OSP to ensure we have a process oriented approach to developing our core products, by leveraging IPT and a project oriented approach to doing work. This has had some mixed results due to many reasons.

Currently we have many schools of thought as to where to take our entire organization. I currently feel, that we do not have an integrated quality management system, and have tried recommending ISO 9001:2000 as an overarching QMS for the entire organization. This would be augmented by additional requirements from Baldrige criteria, and we would absorb our CMMI specific framework into clause 7 (Product Realization) as well as other areas that CMMI maps to. There would be also unique requirements that would have to be added.

Some folks would like to deploy CMMI across the enire organization to include primary organizational elements involved in LC management of products to our support elements that include Business Developement, Financial Management, as well as Human Capitol and other Enterprise functions.

My question is has anyone that has been involved with ISO, looked at integrating CMMI into their current QMS architecture, and was it applied to the ENTIRE ORG, or was it to just portions (such as centers, divisions, or branches).

With CMMI, the underlining theme is that you run as a project, and this would seem to imply that you would run all departments within your org as projects?
Any insight appreciated. PROS/CONS.
VR
ALex

 

[Marc]

I was briefly involved in integrating CMMI into an ISO 9001 organization a couple of years ago. They applied it to a part of the organization.

Hopefully someone who has more experience than I can comment on this.

 

[Loaf73]

Marc,

Thanks for the insight..

Very interested to see what others have done with regard to ISO and CMMI due to the implecations set forth by following one or both models.

I am currently reseaching to see how the ISO appraisal is conducted, to see what type of similarities there are with regard to scope of audit, and its effect how projects are run, as well as the effect on those elements that are not projects but have to comply with processes.
VR
Alex

 

[Sidney Vianna]

One of the things I can tell you is: organizations which treat ISO 9001 implementation as a "project", with the end of the project being certification, never really understood what a QMS is.

Over the years, I have seen many organizations treating ISO 9001 as a project. One of the typical byproducts when this misguided approach happens is the lack of ownership, interest and support by the workforce, once certification is attained. Back to "business as usual".

I don't have much knowledge of the CMMI protocol, but when it comes to a QMS adequation to a standard, a "project approach" is normally doomed to fail because the sustainability and improvement phases are left out of the planning. The target of certification mis-focuses the organization's efforts.

 

[danpa]

Loaf73,
My interprutation is that CMMI focuses on a smaller portion of the organization than ISO9000.
To me CMMI fits nicely inside a ISO9000 organization. CMMI gives a more detailed framework for how to improve the development of software products and a method for understanding the strenghts and weaknesses of the software dev system.
CMMI does assume that software development work will be run as a project, but this is how most organizations run software development anyway.

 

[Loaf73]

Sidney, I may have mislead you with the word "project".. I appologize for it, but was more in the context of what danpa is utilizing it. You do make a great point, and noted.

@ Danpa, my understanding is inline with what you are saying.. With the latest version of CMMI v1.2, it expands the model to not just SW but other developement products, and services.

To all, where my concern comes in, is how do you scale this project concept and take it one level higher to the organizational level.
I do agree that it should be scoped to a certain part of the organization..
Interested in seeing if some folks have done that scaling or if we are maybe trying to stick a square peg in a round hole

Thank to everyone,
Alex

 

[johnwalz]

I have experience with “integrating CMMI into their current QMS architecture”.
CMMI-DEV v1.2 works for both software and system engineering centers of the company, but not at the enterprise level (e.g. Business Development, Financial Management, Human Capitol)

Therefore I agree with you on:
• ISO 9001:2000 as an overarching QMS for the entire organization
• ISO 9001:2000 augmented by additional requirements from Baldrige criteria
• ISO 9001:2000 Clause 7 (Product Realization) using CMMI-DEV specific framework
• ISO 9001:2000 Other Clauses supported by various CMMI-DEV Process Areas
I disagree with “Some folks would like to deploy CMMI across the entire organization” if that means the entire enterprise.

I understand that SEI will be publishing this fall a Technical Report "An Initial Comparative Analysis of the CMMI Product Suite (V1.2) and the ISO 9000 Family"

John

 

[Loaf73]

John,

Thanks for the insight..

I just got back from a DNV sponsored Lead Auditor Course for ISO 9001:2000, and had a chance to talk about the same topic to a few folks over some cold beers..
Essentially similiar thoughts shared by all.

Again thanks for the insight.
Alex

 

[ma7rix13]

John,

I might have to disagree with your assessment that CMMI-DEV would not "work" at the "enterprise level". I would like for you to specify what you mean by "works for".

In my opinion, the OPD, OPF, OPP, OT Process Areas and all the Generic Practices of CMMI-DEV "can" fit very nicely into "enterprise level" processes (ie. Human Capital, Financial Management). I say "can" fit because all organizations have very unique structures (ie. geographic, beurocratic, cultural, projectized vs. functional, etc.) and may lend it to implementing a certain type of model. While it would be difficult to attain a Maturity Level rating for those organizations, at least they are applying the best practices within those Process Areas (and isn't that the whole point of using a maturity model?).

In addition, with the CMMI-SVC constellation coming soon, CMMI can now be better interpreted for those "service / support" organizations at the enterprise level.

and I'm spent for today...
Paul