Job Travelers

GunLake

Involved In Discussions
Hello,
Currently we have Job Travelers, Operators will sign into the job on the computer. Once done, They report their numbers and close the traveler to move it onto the next step. The Operators then sign off on the psychical traveler, Production management has been asking me to remove this step because apparently it is hard to sign it.

Can this step be removed and still satisfy 8.5.1 / 8.6 (Or any other clause)?
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
Can this step be removed and still satisfy 8.5.1 / 8.6 (Or any other clause)?
What specific requirement do you think would be at risk of not conforming to the standard if the physical signature step is dropped?

On the other hand, how do you handle jobs that take more than one shift/operator to finish? Who signs as the approver online?
 

John C. Abnet

Teacher, sensei, kennari
Leader
Super Moderator
Hello,
Currently we have Job Travelers, Operators will sign into the job on the computer. Once done, They report their numbers and close the traveler to move it onto the next step. The Operators then sign off on the psychical traveler, Production management has been asking me to remove this step because apparently it is hard to sign it.

Can this step be removed and still satisfy 8.5.1 / 8.6 (Or any other clause)?
As @Sidney Vianna Vianna noted, what specifically (clause/requirement) is your organization concerned about violating?

The standard, as it's clear you are aware, simply requires......

8.5.1-b
measurement activities at appropriate stages... (your organization determines 'appropriate")

8.6 Release
The organization shall retain documented information on the release of products and services. The
documented information shall include:
a) evidence of conformity with the acceptance criteria;

b) traceability to the person(s) authorizing the release.


I recommend you consider starting with what your organization loses if the current practice is stopped.
1- Does your organization currently utilize/refer back to the signed routers?
2- Does your organization depend on the current approach when researching for corrective actions?
3- Are there other methods (HR timecard tracking, etc...), which lets you know who completed which operation?


Yes, your organization must meet the stated requirements (that you imply), but beyond that, do what is best for your organization.
* Always-Be-Selfish

(By the way, in your organization does "sign off on the physical traveler", even include consideration as to whether the product is 'evidence of conformity with the acceptance criteria"? ...or is this managed otherwise?)


Hope this helps.
Be well.
 
Last edited:

John Predmore

Trusted Information Resource
Section 8.6.b Release of Product has a requirement for "traceability to the person(s) authorizing the release".
Some industries, such as aerospace, require when acceptance authority media (stamps, electronic signatures, passwords) are used in place of signatures, "the organization shall establish controls for the media" (8.5.2). One argument to keep physical signatures is if the company does not have (and chooses not to invest in) adequate controls to prevent workers making computer entries using another worker's identity.

I can relate to the desire to retain physical signatures. I am old school and for contemporary records, I prefer paper. As a pre-Gen X quality person, I personally feel a psychological pause whenever I am asked to sign my name on a quality record and put my reputation and good name on the line. The act of a physical signature feels like a making promise, less anonymous, compared to entering a employee number or a string of random characters in a computer password.

The origin of a "traveler" was a paper record which travels with the product through steps in the production factory. At points in the production sequence, there may arise a legitimate question whether a previous operation was completed on this particular part or lot of material, and what was the outcome. With a paper traveler, the person with the question only has to glance at the traveler to find the answer. If instead, an employee must leave the plant floor to find a computer terminal and login to determine the status of a part/lot, that loss of convenience comes at a cost. I realize Industry 4.0 brings modern technological solutions to this scenario, but many enterprises lag behind in implementation of instantaneous mobile electronic access. Sometimes, for good reason, such as security concerns or cost to implement. These laggard companies still have to comply with 8.5.1 Control of Production and Service Provision.

Paper also affords a place to record important contemporary details, or even a sketch, where the need to add comments was not foreseen by the ERP programmer. There may have been a machine fault or other uncommon occurrence that deserves be recorded. Recording comments on a tablet without a keyboard is not the same as writing it on paper, in my opinion. Recording notes in a general comments field on a different tab below the entry screen is no guarantee that the important note will be seen by subsequent workers in the production sequence. These are a few reasons I think justify continued use of a physical traveler with signatures.
 
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