Quality Line Technician - QC (Quality Control) vs. QA (Quality Assurance)

[Red4165]

Hi All

I am not sure of this is the correct thread, please feel free to move if it isn't.

I have been faced with a dilemma at work today with regards to the roles of my 3 Quality Line Technicians. The Production Manager told me that my guys should be purely QC not QA.

I tried explaining to him that our guys are a mixture of both. They go around checking that the product is in spec on top of the checks that the line guys are conducting. (this is only until we change the culture and lack of understanding with roles and responsibilities with the operators in relation to QC) in addition they conduct other verification tests/checks.

They conduct audits, monitor water, line lube, micro testing, finished product checks, calibration of instruments, raw material checks, customer service provided to production, raising NCR’s, isolating product if concerns have arisen in between checks, analysing Taptone results, carbonation, brix testing, machine audits and reviews resulting from customer feedback, statistical testing, product release Audits, updating calibration registers, work instruction updates, HACCP reviewing, including registers, ncr processing, customer complaint investigations and continuous improvement........and so on....................

So as you can see there is a mixture of both QA and QC in their roles.

Verification and Validation is involved in their tasks.

He told me that I am wrong in how I have my team, he said that my guys should only be Quality Control.....................
He keeps wanting to put all checks that are in place for the operators to perform during production on to my guys and says that they are qc and should be conducting these tests.


Am I right in saying that he basically does not understand the differences in QA and QC and verification and validation???

Am I also right in saying that he is wrong with is recommendations for the roles of my team...................I felt that we had a good balance.

Can someone please advise................although I have argued my case in a small way, I want to be sure of my knowledge before I argue in a bigger way.

Thanks

JJ

 

[Marc]

I'm sure this will be discussed, but here are a couple of links:

Quality Assurance
Quality Control

Personally, I hardly every hear QC used any more.

 

[Cari Spears]

Hi JJ

Seems to me the QA/QC debate is really irrelevant and you should direct your efforts to the real issue: Why does the Production Manager not want the operators to perform inspection checks?

 

[Jim Wynne]

Hi JJ

Seems to me the QA/QC debate is really irrelevant and you should direct your efforts to the real issue: Why does the Production Manager not want the operators to perform inspection checks?

Yes. I've never quite understood why anyone thinks the QA/QC thing is an important distinction; some Q people are inspectors, some are auditors, some are calibration technicians, etc., etc. It's a distinction without a meaningful difference, and reminiscent of the old saw about being eaten by a large reptile while trying to determine whether it's an alligator or a crocodile.

 

[chaosweary]

Production Tricks

Hi JJ

Seems to me the QA/QC debate is really irrelevant and you should direct your efforts to the real issue: Why does the Production Manager not want the operators to perform inspection checks?

Sounds like he is wanting to free up his people from performing inspection, and use them to increase Production, don't bite. Use the argument that if your folks take over verifcation activities then the production folks won't own their own quality and it will create an adversarial work environment. Tell him quality activities have to be integrated into production as a part of the same process. Then tell him if he really want you to make him look bad during the weekly management meetings when your folks find all those mistakes (just kidding).

 

[Coury Ferguson]

I tend to agree with Cari regarding the debate. It is really not important what their Pre-Title is (QA/QC).

The fact is you are all out for the same thing. To satisfy your customer and meet their expectations.

The Production Manager should have the same goal and it bothers me to see that it appears that he/she cares so little of the overall outcome of the customer's satisfaction. And I would ask the same question: Why doesn't he/she want the operators to take ownership of the product they make?

 

[ralphsulser]

Why doesn't he/she want the operators to take ownership of the product they make?

I have seen this type thinking mode before many times. Production does not want the responsibility for quality, and if something goes wrong at the customer they will say "Well, QC didn't catch it" and you will be their big crutch. I assume you do not report to the Production Manager, so your boss is the one you need to agree with your personnel assignments.
QC/QA, mox nix

 

[Red4165]

Hi all
Many thanks for your comments. Myself and the production manager are on equal levels and we both report to the Operations Manager. He is having major staff resourcing issues at present with a fair bit of absenteeism. Quality is always used as the scapegoat and takes the wrap when something goes wrong, we just cop it on the chin and look for ways to improve and prevent the same error occuring.

He does not stand up to his own staff when they complain about having to do checks etc, he sympathises with them instead of explaining that it is part of their job and the how quality benefits the company. He is a bit of a male chauvenist and because I am a women, he thinks I am an easy target to fix his resourcing problems.

I have told him that his argument is not valid and that he doesn't understand quality assurance at all. He argued with that again and we argued about validation and verification. I told him that i would supply some material to explain QA, QC validation and verification and how this is implemented and maintained in a manufacturing environment......................

Has anyone got any ideas or samples of info that would cover this. I could put something together, but if someone has already created a presentation or training doc, then why re-invent the wheel?

What are all your thoughts?

JJ

 

[ralphsulser]

First you get a 2x4, then smack him upside the head.
Once you get his attention tell him he is responsible for quality just like everybody else.That is an old, old production excuse that went out in the 80's after 40 years of Bull Hockey.
This guy needs to have his and his employees training and competence updated.

 

[Al Rosen]

Hi all
Many thanks for your comments. Myself and the production manager are on equal levels and we both report to the Operations Manager. He is having major staff resourcing issues at present with a fair bit of absenteeism. Quality is always used as the scapegoat and takes the wrap when something goes wrong, we just cop it on the chin and look for ways to improve and prevent the same error occuring.

He does not stand up to his own staff when they complain about having to do checks etc, he sympathises with them instead of explaining that it is part of their job and the how quality benefits the company. He is a bit of a male chauvenist and because I am a women, he thinks I am an easy target to fix his resourcing problems.

I have told him that his argument is not valid and that he doesn't understand quality assurance at all. He argued with that again and we argued about validation and verification. I told him that i would supply some material to explain QA, QC validation and verification and how this is implemented and maintained in a manufacturing environment......................

Has anyone got any ideas or samples of info that would cover this. I could put something together, but if someone has already created a presentation or training doc, then why re-invent the wheel?

What are all your thoughts?

JJ

JJ, can you use the attachment (not my creation) as a start.