Similar, but different conclusion.
gpainter said:
Read thru 6.2.2 b) and then c), several times. If you provide training, then c) is not required. What is other actions? Pay cut, demotion, lay-off, verbal warning, poka-yoke, etc. I think the key is to TRAIN, TRAIN, TRAIN AND RETRAIN,RETRAIN, RETRAIN.
My earlier response in this thread was to the thread starter.
I am now pondering the relationship you stated here. I do not agree that if you provide training that c) then is not required. b) is provide training
OR take other actions (training is an action in order for there to be 'other' actions). I believe the 'actions taken' in c) would be either the training or the other actions. So not only do I have to avaluate the effectiveness of training, but also the effectiveness of the hiring, demotion, lay-off, etc. performed in providing the Human Resources needed to implement and maintain the QMS (6.1 a) and meet customer requirements (6.1 b).
This would require that I have a Human Resource Management system with quality objectives to monitor and measure, but according to 6.2.2 e) I only have to maintain records of education, training, skills and experience!
How far off am I in this understanding?
Thanks,
Doug
Post Script: Just read 9004 and it seems to only center on "The education and training provided should be evaluated in terms of expectations and impact on the effectiveness and efficiency of the organization as a means of improving future training plans."
So another example where one standard says one thing and another leads you a different way. [Referring to 9001 7.3 states 'product,' but 9000 defines Design & Development as product, process, or system (3.4.4) and at the same time defines product (3.4.2) as a result of a process. - Quite contradictory in my reading and understanding.]