13485 Internal auditor qualifications

[SamKD]

Hi everyone,

From the standard I cant find any info of required qualification for the lead auditor of internal audits. But 6.2 describes that the personnel are to be competent/qualified for the tasks they execute.

I'm the one who will conduct all the internal audits but I have not received any formal training on this. Is formal training required to be able to conduct audits? I'm thinking more of the point of view from a certification body, will they say I'm not qualified for this task?

As I work in a startup we dont want to spend unnecessary funds on internal auditor training if it is not a requirement.

 

[shimonv]

@SamKD ,
I understand your predicament, but you have to be able to demonstrate that you are competent/qualified to do internal audits.
So, you must have some sort of training record and resume to support that.

Shimon

 

[yodon]

To put a really fine point on it, competence doesn't necessarily imply training. If you had indicated you have been doing audits for some number of years, that may well be suitable to demonstrate competence (there would likely be some OJT associated at some point, I would guess).

You could either spend the funds on training or hire an outside (qualified) auditor to do the work. (The latter would allow you time to get training / develop the competence to ultimately take it on).

 

[ChrisM]

Although you say that you have not received any formal training, have you conducted many internal audits before? You may have had plenty of internal audit training informally by initially observing trained auditors at work, and by participating in third-party (and second-party) audits. If you could write down a summary of this, it could be considered as a way of demonstrating your training. If you have then conducted some internal audits and have produced reports identifying nonconformances, following up on corrective actions etc, and these have never been objected to by the auditees or their superiors, it could be seen as further evidence that you could be considered a credible and competent internal auditor. The onus would then be on your assessment body to state why they considered this to be inadequate.

 

[SamKD]

Thank you for the replies.

I have not conducted any audits before and this is actually my first job. But I have spent a lot of time getting into the standard and setting up the procedures.

This means I have no audit experience at all. Would you then say that an auditor or internal auditor training is a requirement?

 

[ED76]

I would say it is in these circumstances. Our certification body has queried my lack of formal training for internal audits, despite the fact that I have evidence to show that I have been doing them for various companies for 20 or so years with just internal training and on the job experience. They didn't issue a non-conformance but I suspect they would have done in your situation, sorry. It isn't just knowing the standard, it is knowing how to audit. There is also the question of auditing your own work, if you have set up all the procedures then you may be in something of a conflict of interest, even if other people are doing the day to day running of the quality management system. I have trained colleagues to audit the aspects of the QMS for which I am responsible.

 

[Golfman25]

I would say it is in these circumstances. Our certification body has queried my lack of formal training for internal audits, despite the fact that I have evidence to show that I have been doing them for various companies for 20 or so years with just internal training and on the job experience. They didn't issue a non-conformance but I suspect they would have done in your situation, sorry. It isn't just knowing the standard, it is knowing how to audit. There is also the question of auditing your own work, if you have set up all the procedures then you may be in something of a conflict of interest, even if other people are doing the day to day running of the quality management system. I have trained colleagues to audit the aspects of the QMS for which I am responsible.

So you likely have more internal audit experience than the person auditing you. SMH.

Unfortunately, too many auditors want to see a shiny expensive certificate from a training organization. It's the lazy auditor standard.

 

[SamKD]

Great, thanks for your input it was really helpful. I now know that formal training for me is a requirement and will make it easier for me to defend it to management.