8.2.3 Monitoring and measurement of processes - What is "Where applicable"
Re: 8.2.3 Monitoring and measurement of processes
Ed,
Measurement may not be required to monitor a process but each process should result in conforming output.
Indeed, in order to monitor processes for their effectiveness we need to refer to the ISO 9000 definition of effectiveness.
Paraphrasing for 8.2.3, you'll see that effectiveness means the processes that conform to their procedures result in conforming output.
This is why the people responsible for the success of the process monitor and, if necessary, correct their processes to result in conforming output.
But many organizations specify process success criteria (see clause 4.1c) in which case measurement may be applicable.
John
Ed,
Measurement may not be required to monitor a process but each process should result in conforming output.
Indeed, in order to monitor processes for their effectiveness we need to refer to the ISO 9000 definition of effectiveness.
Paraphrasing for 8.2.3, you'll see that effectiveness means the processes that conform to their procedures result in conforming output.
This is why the people responsible for the success of the process monitor and, if necessary, correct their processes to result in conforming output.
But many organizations specify process success criteria (see clause 4.1c) in which case measurement may be applicable.
John
Re: 8.2.3 Monitoring and measurement of processes
A simple case is the dashboard on a car. Often, gauges are fitted to parts of the car and its process(es) which tell us things which are measured - speed for example - and monitored - coolant temperature. To suggest that each one should be measured against set goals, when the process is driving down the road is both bizarre and shows how little someone knows about the process. So, it's "where applicable". You can still drive a journey without ever knowing the coolant temperature. However, it IS helpful to monitor the thing...
A simple case is the dashboard on a car. Often, gauges are fitted to parts of the car and its process(es) which tell us things which are measured - speed for example - and monitored - coolant temperature. To suggest that each one should be measured against set goals, when the process is driving down the road is both bizarre and shows how little someone knows about the process. So, it's "where applicable". You can still drive a journey without ever knowing the coolant temperature. However, it IS helpful to monitor the thing...
P
Phulpy
Re: 8.2.3 Monitoring and measurement of processes
So which is your choice of the two words?
So which is your choice of the two words?
E
EasyEd77
Re: 8.2.3 Monitoring and measurement of processes
Ok so the auditor finally got back to me and stated that he is looking at page 34 in the 4th Edition rules f) summary of audited processes and written information on the performance of each process audited (i.e. defined objectives, targets, and current performance)
Ok so the auditor finally got back to me and stated that he is looking at page 34 in the 4th Edition rules f) summary of audited processes and written information on the performance of each process audited (i.e. defined objectives, targets, and current performance)
Re: 8.2.3 Monitoring and measurement of processes
What? The instructions on how the CB is to report the results of the audit? He's using THAT to write you up? I feel a complaint coming...(BTW he may have only been newly qualified...)
What? The instructions on how the CB is to report the results of the audit? He's using THAT to write you up? I feel a complaint coming...(BTW he may have only been newly qualified...)
E
EasyEd77
Re: 8.2.3 Monitoring and measurement of processes
Whats my next step, I keep asking him the rule and its almost like he's making one up. FYI he is not a rookie I think he is the heads of the department for UL DQS.
Whats my next step, I keep asking him the rule and its almost like he's making one up. FYI he is not a rookie I think he is the heads of the department for UL DQS.
Re: 8.2.3 Monitoring and measurement of processes
Simply explain you don't agree the audit finding and the audit criteria being used and that any formal finding WILL be appealed and a complaint lodged with the auditor's management regarding this. They have to have an appeals process.
Simply explain you don't agree the audit finding and the audit criteria being used and that any formal finding WILL be appealed and a complaint lodged with the auditor's management regarding this. They have to have an appeals process.
J
Julie O
Usually it means that they weren't sure what they wanted when they wrote it, but they hoped the auditors would know it when they saw it.
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