Is conducting of all MSA studies required, even if not required by the customer?

[AMIT BALLAL]

Hi............

My organization is a SME & is ISO/TS 16949:2009 certified .

Our CSR specifies to conduct GRR studies. No other MSA studies are asked in the CSR (By customer).

We are having around 600 Measurement techniques mentioned in the control plan. And 7.6.1 clause of TS requires to conduct MSA of all measurement techniques mentioned in Control plan.

My query is: As 7.6.1 specifies: "Other analytical methods and acceptance criteria may be used if approved by the customer."
Does this mean, if our customer asks to conduct GRR studies only, then we can get exclusion from other MSA studies?

As conducting of all MSA studies of 600 Measurement techniques will not be feasible to us being a SME (Due to limited resources).

If we can't get exclusion, What can be maximum frequency of doing MSA studies & what are the studies that would be compulsory?

Please guide.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Amit

 

[Stijloor]

Re: Is conducting of all MSA studies required, even if not required by customer?

A Quick Bump!

Can someone help Amit?

Thank you very much!!

 

[Amine.arafa]

Re: Is conducting of all MSA studies required, even if not required by customer?

Hi Amit
I am currently having a training session on MSA and I happened to ask the same question, the answer was that yes, R&R studies are enough for TS if there is no other requirements from costumers, but you need to complete them with the analysis of calibration reports as proofs of bias and stability analysis
Hope I helped
Regards
Mohamed Amine

 

[AMIT BALLAL]

Re: Is conducting of all MSA studies required, even if not required by customer?

Thanks for help.

What kind of analysis would be needed with calibration reports? As it includes the range calibrated & error observed during calibration only. How bias & stability can be analysed using the calibration reports?

These are my few queries. Please help.

Thanks,
Amit

 

[Amine.arafa]

Re: Is conducting of all MSA studies required, even if not required by customer?

Hi
The measurements in the calibration report are in fact the average of several measurements in the same point, wich is the way you can measure Bias.
Ask your calibration lab, the will certainly give you their detailed procedure.
For linearity, you can analyse the difference in Bias between certificates.
Regards
Amine

 

[AMIT BALLAL]

Re: Is conducting of all MSA studies required, even if not required by customer?

Hi!!!!!!!!!
Any comments are appreciated. Still not clear whether it is required or not? Please help!


Regards,
Amit

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Is conducting of all MSA studies required, even if not required by customer?

Hi!!!!!!!!!
Any comments are appreciated. Still not clear whether it is required or not? Please help!


Regards,
Amit

From ISO/TS 16949:2009. It's pretty unambiguous:

7.6.1 Measurement system analysis
Statistical studies shall be conducted to analyse the variation present in the results of each type of measuring and test equipment system. This requirement shall apply to measurement systems referenced in the control plan.

The requirement applies irrespective of specific customer waivers or absolutions.

 

[AMIT BALLAL]

Re: Is conducting of all MSA studies required, even if not required by customer?

Thanks for reply Jim.


Does this mean , I have to conduct all MSA studies (Linearity, Bias, stability, GRR, etc.) for Measurement Techniques referenced in control plan.

Currently we are doing only GRR studies, as we are having around 600 Measurement techniques. I'm still worried about how to complete so many studies.


Thanks,
Amit

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Is conducting of all MSA studies required, even if not required by customer?

Thanks for reply Jim.


Does this mean , I have to conduct all MSA studies (Linearity, Bias, stability, GRR, etc.) for Measurement Techniques referenced in control plan.

Currently we are doing only GRR studies, as we are having around 600 Measurement techniques. I'm still worried about how to complete so many studies.


Thanks,
Amit

I don't think you have 600 different measurement "techniques." You probably have a lot of similar or identical types of devices and they are being used to measure similar characteristics. For example, if you're using micrometers to measure the thickness of sheet metal, and you have fifty different micrometers that might be used, you might have to do only one study.

Tell us more about what you're measuring and how you're measuring.

 

[AMIT BALLAL]

Re: Is conducting of all MSA studies required, even if not required by customer?

Hi!

We are having measurement techniques such as: "Micrometer, Vernier, Inspection fixtures, Welding fixtures(With inspection provision), Inspection Templates, Visual, etc.".

We are having total 3 units, hence appraisers are different.

My further queries:
1) Is it required to conduct MSA studies for measurement technique such as 'Micrometer' for every unit, as appraisers are different?
2) Is it required to conduct MSA studies for every Inspection fixture / template (Used for inspecting different products)?

Thanks,
Amit