KBR Issued Level III CAR in Iraq

[Ms Sparky]

Craig,

You probably won't even if you used the correct term - LOL - Defense Contract Management Agency.

The corrective action process is, for the lack of a better term, an internal procedure - but, you never know - you might find something.

I led him astray!! My bad.

 

[BradM]

They weren't all in the shower. I think we've had three in the showers, one pressure washing a vehicle, two in a swimming pool. Then a bunch not reporting the cause. There have been 3700 electrical fires and some deaths from that. And the injuries from electrical shock and electrical fires are in the several hundreds I'm sure. The DoD just doesn't send me the reports like I ask them to!! Go figure.

I gotcha. I hate sounding like a broken record... but here is my horse in the race.

If the work is being done to Code (and inspected), then the percentages of injuries/death should be the same/lower as those of any other equivalently populated area. Like I stated, I don't care if it's Iraq or Kennedale Texas, the work should be done to code. That has been around since the late 1800's, and serves the purpose pretty well.

There should have been only one CAR... the first time something was not done according to Code.

 

[Ms Sparky]

I gotcha. I hate sounding like a broken record... but here is my horse in the race.

If the work is being done to Code (and inspected), then the percentages of injuries/death should be the same/lower as those of any other equivalently populated area. Like I stated, I don't care if it's Iraq or Kennedale Texas, the work should be done to code. That has been around since the late 1800's, and serves the purpose pretty well.

There should have been only one CAR... the first time something was not done according to Code.

I understand. I am just trying to find a way to explain it so it doesn't come across as being political. I was an electrician for two years in Baghdad for KBR. My opinions are based on my experiences and what I have been told by others. I will be honest I am not at all impartial.

For the two years I was in Iraq there was no code mentioned. I assumed my work would be done in accordance to the NEC and did so to best of my ability with limited tools, material and management support. Also....there's the whole European voltage and equipment issues as well.

There was no electrical inspection program where I was. DCMA didn't inspect either. I was never inspected.

Grounding and bonding was an issue from the onset. The Army sent out Safety Bulletins and yet no additional training or awareness was implemented by KBR. I had no idea people had been dying of electrocution until June of of '08.

Now it's a big deal.

Ms Sparky

 

[Al Rosen]

Well, I tried a google search for "Defense Management Contract Agency"+"Corrective Action System" and came up with nothing. I am still curious. Does anyone have a link to a gov doc that contains specifics about this system?

It's Defense Contract Management Agency (DCMA).

 

[Craig H.]

It's Defense Contract Management Agency (DCMA).

Ms. Sparky corrected herseelf, and the link that she and justincredible supplied has answered my questions (thanks!). Even though there is the usual excess of documentation, the process itself and the use of the CAR levels appear to be straightforward.

I don't want to jump to conclusions, but....

 

[BradM]

I understand. I am just trying to find a way to explain it so it doesn't come across as being political. I was an electrician for two years in Baghdad for KBR. My opinions are based on my experiences and what I have been told by others. I will be honest I am not at all impartial.

And I for one, appreciate you working to keep the politics out of this. This needs to be a discussion regarding actual evidence of a deficiency, and the organization's response/ lack of response to that deficiency.

For the two years I was in Iraq there was no code mentioned. I assumed my work would be done in accordance to the NEC and did so to best of my ability with limited tools, material and management support. Also....there's the whole European voltage and equipment issues as well.

I'm confused here. As a Journeyman Electrician, you pretty much know how to perform basic installation, install raceways, proper gauge wire, etc. Please don't take as an attack or anything; just don't understand when you say "I assumed my work would be done....".

Now... I can do work to NEC code with a Leatherman. But was the wire not rated cable? Was the gauge wire not appropriate?

Now... you have a good point about European voltage and such. But... the wiring methods done according to NEC should be appropriate. Saying, the voltage may be higher so wire size will probably change, but methods should not change.

What did you work off of? Procedures, drawings (were they approved?) nothing? I mean, how did you (and the others working with you) know what to do?

I would like to know factually exactly why the work was not done according to Code, if indeed that is the case.

There was no electrical inspection program where I was. DCMA didn't inspect either. I was never inspected.
Grounding and bonding was an issue from the onset.

Ok... that's a huge matter. You mean to tell me that representatives signed off without checking the work? There is no Authority Having Jurisdiction for this work?

Grounding is one of the single biggest (and most often updated) sections of the Code. Again, any supervisors with field experience (preferably licensed electricians) would have known to do this.

The Army sent out Safety Bulletins and yet no additional training or awareness was implemented by KBR. I had no idea people had been dying of electrocution until June of of '08.

Now it's a big deal.

Ms Sparky

You dang right it's a big deal, if it has occurred. Now... please.. I am not accusing anyone of fabricating anything. I would just like to see something from a reasonably rigorous news source (not a blog or someone's web site) citing the accidents, and more importantly, how they occurred.

 

[Ms Sparky]

Not exactly sure how to use the multi-quote function. So Bear with me. My answers will be in RED.

And I for one, appreciate you working to keep the politics out of this. This needs to be a discussion regarding actual evidence of a deficiency, and the organization's response/ lack of response to that deficiency.



I'm confused here. As a Journeyman Electrician, you pretty much know how to perform basic installation, install raceways, proper gauge wire, etc. Please don't take as an attack or anything; just don't understand when you say "I assumed my work would be done....".

Now... I can do work to NEC code with a Leatherman. But was the wire not rated cable? Was the gauge wire not appropriate?

You can't do EVERYTHING with a leatherman. Electricians need the basic set of tools, screwdrivers, voltage testers, etc. Those were not always available. I didn't have a voltage tester for the first 4-6 weeks that I was there. Not have the right tools was a major problem. Keep in mind this was more industrial/commercial not residential.

Now... you have a good point about European voltage and such. But... the wiring methods done according to NEC should be appropriate. Saying, the voltage may be higher so wire size will probably change, but methods should not change.

What did you work off of? Procedures, drawings (were they approved?) nothing? I mean, how did you (and the others working with you) know what to do?

Unless it was a brand new building being built there were no drawing or prints. The Palace I worked in had NO prints for maintenance.

I would like to know factually exactly why the work was not done according to Code, if indeed that is the case.

We couldn't get the right material and tools. There for awhile we couldn't even get Scotch 33 tape or wirenuts. I traded a six pack of beer for three rolls of Scotch 33 from another contractor. We did the best we could with what we had.



Ok... that's a huge matter. You mean to tell me that representatives signed off without checking the work? There is no Authority Having Jurisdiction for this work?

KBR QA/QC might check some of the new stuff. But our QA/QC at our camp didn't have an electrical inspector. And in the two years I was there no one ever ispected my work.

Grounding is one of the single biggest (and most often updated) sections of the Code. Again, any supervisors with field experience (preferably licensed electricians) would have known to do this.

My Foreman was not even an electrican. Trying to convince him something needed to be done was like trying to teach a pig to sing!



You dang right it's a big deal, if it has occurred. Now... please.. I am not accusing anyone of fabricating anything. I would just like to see something from a reasonably rigorous news source (not a blog or someone's web site) citing the accidents, and more importantly, how they occurred.

I have links to news aricles in my blog. The NY times just came out with another article and there will be more. The DoD is not releasing anything. Here's a link to some of the Senate hearings testimony. It's a video 4 1/2 minutes long. I don't know if the moderators will let this stay or not.

http://newsproject.org/node/91

The biggest problem is information is not forthcoming from DoD or KBR. We get it in bits and pieces from the people involved and the Senate and Congressional Hearings. I am just trying to find out more about the CAR process.

I have learned so much on this thread. THANKYOU!!

 

[Randy]

Another bunch of reasons why I turned down a $180+K offer back in 2004