Please Review my Process Map

[p_tww]

Re: Please review my process map!!!

Please post an example of what you think best shows how to clarify the interacton/sequence. Then we may better understand the objectives.

sorry for unclear information. sequence/interaction should show the clear relation, that means where the input come from and where the output goes to.
example such as MOPs include business planning/ data anlaysis/managment review/improvement/internal audit
and we could show the sequence as Business planning-->data analysis--->improvement--->internal audit ----> managment review, then management review linked back to improvement.
hope clear.

 

[rudolfrm]

Hi, my friend

I revewed your procesess map and I have some points for you.

I think the process 4.2 and 4.2.4 don't be a process, they are procedures.
You show 7.4 and 7.6 as COP but remember the definition of COP. activities who interact with the customer by the input or output, this kind of process don't be a COPS, this process are SOPS.
I didn't see the motivation process, I recomended to you that put it.
Remember that the COPS should have contac with the customer for example invoice, etc

regards

Rudolf

 

[Peter Fraser]

I don't know TS16949, but I get the impression that the term "COP" (which is used regularly by all you folk in automotive) is defined in that standard. Until this thread started, I had assumed (I know that can be risky!) that a "Customer Oriented Process" was similar to the collection of activities and requirements mentioned in the "Customer-related Process" Section (7.2) of ISO9001:2000, but I now get the impression that the term is used in the same way as "Product Realisation" in ISO2K.

Anyone else outwith automotive been confused?

Can someone post the definition? Does the definition help folk to understand their own operations better? Many thanks.

 

[cheahga]

I don't know TS16949, but I get the impression that the term "COP" (which is used regularly by all you folk in automotive) is defined in that standard. Until this thread started, I had assumed (I know that can be risky!) that a "Customer Oriented Process" was similar to the collection of activities and requirements mentioned in the "Customer-related Process" Section (7.2) of ISO9001:2000, but I now get the impression that the term is used in the same way as "Product Realisation" in ISO2K.

Anyone else outwith automotive been confused?

Can someone post the definition? Does the definition help folk to understand their own operations better? Many thanks.

Hi Peter,

In AIAG TS implementation guide, 2.1 stated the below:

" 2.1 Customer Oriented Processes
In ISO/TS 16949:2002, the IATF has adopted a concept called “Customer Oriented Processes,” or COPs.
COPs are referred to in the Checklist to ISO/TS 16949:2002, where it is stated:
The IATF expects ISO/TS 16949:2002 auditors to audit based upon the
Customer Oriented Processes (COP). The COP is a model that was introduced
by ISO 9001:2000 and refers to the fact that any organization needs customer input to comply to specified and expected needs of the customer (output) in order to achieve customer satisfaction. This is accomplished by value adding processes of product realization and appropriate support processes, both enabled by management processes and provided resources."

However, the checklist to ISO/ TS 16949 was made obsolete after IATF decided that there shall not be any checklist for a third party auditor as this will create clause by clause audit as what is happening in QS 9000.

So basically what you have in mind is 7.2.

Hope this help.

 

[p_tww]

I don't know TS16949, but I get the impression that the term "COP" (which is used regularly by all you folk in automotive) is defined in that standard. Until this thread started, I had assumed (I know that can be risky!) that a "Customer Oriented Process" was similar to the collection of activities and requirements mentioned in the "Customer-related Process" Section (7.2) of ISO9001:2000, but I now get the impression that the term is used in the same way as "Product Realisation" in ISO2K.

Anyone else outwith automotive been confused?

Can someone post the definition? Does the definition help folk to understand their own operations better? Many thanks.

Hi, Peter

COP means customer oriented process, in another word, is process whose input come from customer and output go to customer directly.
usually customer related processes could be identified, such as customer requirements identification/review, product/process design, delivery, service, customer feedback handling, payment etc.
hope clear

 

[ralphsulser]

Hi Peter,

In AIAG TS implementation guide, 2.1 stated the below:

" 2.1 Customer Oriented Processes
In ISO/TS 16949:2002, the IATF has adopted a concept called “Customer Oriented Processes,” or COPs.
COPs are referred to in the Checklist to ISO/TS 16949:2002, where it is stated:
The IATF expects ISO/TS 16949:2002 auditors to audit based upon the
Customer Oriented Processes (COP). The COP is a model that was introduced
by ISO 9001:2000 and refers to the fact that any organization needs customer input to comply to specified and expected needs of the customer (output) in order to achieve customer satisfaction. This is accomplished by value adding processes of product realization and appropriate support processes, both enabled by management processes and provided resources."

However, the checklist to ISO/ TS 16949 was made obsolete after IATF decided that there shall not be any checklist for a third party auditor as this will create clause by clause audit as what is happening in QS 9000.

So basically what you have in mind is 7.2.

Hope this help.

RE:COPS,MOPS,SOPS
As I recall this all started with AIAG/IATF approved training by Plexus for ISO9001/TS16949 3rd party CB auditors, and was part of the lexicon introduced initially. There may some posts here somewere that references this scenerio.

So then the newly trained auditors "suggested" these methods along with other things like turtle diagrams. It then spread like wildfire because everybody wanted to use the latest techniques to help them get their QMS certified too.

 

[Peter Fraser]

RE:COPS,MOPS,SOPS
As I recall this all started with AIAG/IATF approved training by Plexus for ISO9001/TS16949 3rd party CB auditors, and was part of the lexicon introduced initially. There may some posts here somewere that references this scenerio.

So then the newly trained auditors "suggested" these methods along with other things like turtle diagrams. It then spread like wildfire because everybody wanted to use the latest techniques to help them get their QMS certified too.

Ralph / Cheahga / P_tww

Thanks, all.

It is interesting how things get interpreted, and how ideas develop, sometimes away from the original intention - for example, I don't believe that 7.2.3 (Customer commmunication) describes a process (or processes), but rather "things you need to do" in other processes. But the fact that 7.2 is called "Customer-related processes" seems to have led some folk to think that everything mentioned in the section must be a process.

And then we have COPs, and "Product Realisation", and "Customer Satisfaction" - perhaps everything that an organisation does in relation to quality should be thought of as "customer oriented", including the way it is managed and the way in which resources are provided - and the way in which it "gets and does work" can be focussed on as its "core processes".

 

[qualityboi]

What process maps are mandatory? One showing the interelationships of all of the COPs, MOPs and SOPs (just one)? Separate ones for each individual withing each category, (COP, SOP MOP?) (A bunch?) Just what will satisfies 4.1B? We had an external consultant / auditor say he usually finds 25-30 processes mapped. Now this has become and expectation....

 

[hutchinson]

hi,all
I'm Jacky from China,I've been worked in TS operation for 3 years in a JV of China and France,I think this title on process map help me a lot!
thank you all!

--------
Jacky