Setting up ISO9001 system - when to start internal auditing?

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Even if everyone acts as an auditor it will be hard to meet the requirement that auditors only audit areas in which they are not involved. How would you cope with this?

What is required (clause 8.2.2) is in fact that auditors stay away from auditing their own work. That makes it a good deal easier to manage than it in previous versions of the standard. Even so, this may take a bit of creativity in very small companies. Could you by any chance trade audits with some neighbouring company? That often works well.

/Claes

 

[al40]

John,
I have been in the process of setting up ISO 9001:2000 for the small business I work for since October 2004 (10 employees) and we're just now getting ready for our pre-assessment audit on September 30, so it's been a year for us in setting up the system, training and auditing.

As far as having audits complete our registar requires a full round of audits to be completed before the certification audit. So ensure you discuss this with your registar before signing on with one.

Also The cove has been a great wealth of resource and help so be sure to take advantage of the talent that comes here.

 

[DavidYu]

to Claes,
Claes said:"..audits with some neighbouring company"
Mnmm.. That sounds like an interesting idea for me. Did you mean to find someones out of current company and let them do internal audit? Just asking... :truce:

 

[bpritts]

John - let me extend my welcome, too.

With regard to independence of the internal audits, three ideas:

1) Where practical, break down the "pieces" to be audited in small bits, to
allow your other 3 people to audit small bits of each other's work.

2) Consider a trade of services with a colleague in another firm. You give
him/her a few days of auditing time in exchange for them reciprocating.
Best would be if you can find a non-competing firm in your industry, perhaps
at a trade association meeting. This was Claes' recommendation, and I have also found this helpful.

3) Consider subcontracting the internal audit to a qualified consultant.
Will cost more cash, but may be faster.

Internal doesn't have to be your internal employee. However, in any of these cases, you need to be sure to document how the people doing the auditing are qualified, and include key details in your internal audit procedure.



Best regards,
Brad

from an ISO 9001 registered firm with 6 employees...

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Did you mean to find someones out of current company and let them do internal audit?

Yes, that's it. We do it here: I perform audits for sister companies in our group, and they send auditors to us. As it happens, it's convenient to exchange audits within the group, but I wouldn't hesitate to have an exchange with a completely independent company. Besides, in our case we do it mainly in order to exchange ideas and learn from each other.

/Claes

 

[mike101338]

We do the same thing here. I have equal number of internal auditors from external sources as I do from within the company. The goal is to always have an external person paired with an internal person for every audit. Occasionally, I'll have a team of only external auditors, but that is only when the pair have a good comfort level and understanding of the area they will be entering.

This helps in many ways. It keeps the auditors more objective; Helps to provide a clear view of the practice; and if someone needs to be firm during the audit, the external person usually feels more comfortable than the internal person does. It can be easier for a volunteer to tell my boss what we found demosntrates a nonconformance on something he did than it is for me to tell me him.

 

[Kenneth Czar]

John,

I started also our organization for 9001:2000 last Oct.2004.Its very tough especially nobody knows about ISO 9001 in our organization(70 employees).We conducted our final audit last August 2005 and we overcome it.5 minor nc with different clauses.(4.2.4, 7.5.3,8.2.4 and 8.2.3)

Thanks to all here in Elsmar Cove...Ive learned a lot and still continuing for our QMS improvement.


Kenneth

 

[Helmut Jilling]

John,

I started also our organization for 9001:2000 last Oct.2004.Its very tough especially nobody knows about ISO 9001 in our organization(70 employees).We conducted our final audit last August 2005 and we overcome it.5 minor nc with different clauses.(4.2.4, 7.5.3,8.2.4 and 8.2.3)

Thanks to all here in Elsmar Cove...Ive learned a lot and still continuing for our QMS improvement.


Kenneth

Congratulations for making it to this stage in your audit. If you would like more good information to help your team move forward, I would recommend that you read ISO 9004:2000. It is part of the ISO 9001:2000 standard family. It is a very good document that gives much good information on how to use this program better. I believe everyone should read it who manages ISO.