Why do so many ISO 9001 Implementation Programs Fail?

LUV-d-4UM

Quite Involved in Discussions
Many people believe that ISO 9001 should be categorized as a business management system standard, rather than a quality management system document.
(We are made to think that quality management system is aligned with our business , e.g. Quality Policy aligns with vision and mission, business plans provide input to quality objectives, which is also the performance indicator. The problem now is this, we have so many “HOW TO” core business procedures that the 6 procedures that ISO requires is not written.) The word quality is for us CVP, Customer Experience, CSI. We understand quality if we align everything with the way we do business . Please note that I am quoting you in my comments.
 
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pearsonow

As some of the covers know I am currently in the process of implementing ISO9001:2008 into a business which doesn't currently have a credable Management System, nevermind a compliant one.

The MD has made the decision, along with other board members that an ISO 9001:2008 compliant system is the right thing for the business.

In the experiance I have both here and in other companies, this direction from the MD has overcome at least one of the big issues - I'm not doing it because the boss says it is a waste of time - anyone who says this has to explain themself!

The other biggest issue I think is one that points at us as 'Quality' professionals, Change Management - people don't like change. We do things because that is the way we have always done them. We don;t do them because that is the best way.

Again this support from the MD has helped overcome that, especially the way he phrases it - We need to use ISO 9001 as a template not for the piece of paper on the wall, but because it is the right thing to do for the business at this point.

Finally I think the root of many failures is people - they think that someone coming in an introducing ISO 9001 is saying to them, that they have been doing it wrong. This means we need to be able to manage perception. I said in my first ever team meeting - "We do not want to invent new processes or slow you down, we want to make life easier and faster. Write down what you do now. Then we will sit down together and see if we can do things an easier way."

Olly:2cents:
 
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GoKats78

We have been certified and maintained that certification for many years, yet I would hold that ours is a failed system...

We have a mgmt rep that does not understand the process approach, a plant manager that does his best to circumvent what system we have (and manages to push any accountability away from himself) and a Executive VP who thinks everything is wonderful but acknowledges that lack of discipline towards requirements (system or customer) exists and can't be changed, and a President total unaware of any system....

Yet, there the certificate hangs...right there in the front lobby....
 
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snappy

We have been certified and maintained that certification for many years, yet I would hold that ours is a failed system...

We have a mgmt rep that does not understand the process approach, a plant manager that does his best to circumvent what system we have (and manages to push any accountability away from himself) and a Executive VP who thinks everything is wonderful but acknowledges that lack of discipline towards requirements (system or customer) exists and can't be changed, and a President total unaware of any system....

Yet, there the certificate hangs...right there in the front lobby....

Too bad. Not understanding the process approach is more common than you might think. And finding good information about it is not easy, either. What ever happened to ISO9001Guy? He seemed to understand the process approach and tried to promote it despite the flack from the Covers.
 
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JaneB

We have been certified and maintained that certification for many years, yet I would hold that ours is a failed system...

We have a mgmt rep that does not understand the process approach, a plant manager that does his best to circumvent what system we have (and manages to push any accountability away from himself) and a Executive VP who thinks everything is wonderful but acknowledges that lack of discipline towards requirements (system or customer) exists and can't be changed, and a President total unaware of any system....

Yet, there the certificate hangs...right there in the front lobby....
And one can (and does) have driverson the road who hold valid driving licenses, but are shocking drivers.

I agree: yours IS a failed system. What a pity. And one can only speculate what it teaches people about 'quality' and 'certification'.
 
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JaneB

Pearsonow,
Sounds like a great start, with a solid foundation and an effective approach. :agree1:
 
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pearsonow

Thanks Jane, The timescale is a little daunting for something meaningful to be created, but I'm sure we will get there.....
 
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kgott

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

I have met many, many people whose view of their world is defined by their perceived role and expectations placed upon them. These people understand their fields very well, but resist the suggestion to stray into someone else's field - in my case that means "quality is for QA people."

With such people the business case will be about outcomes, not about how they achieved the outcome - unless they want to focus on failure to achieve. Research on failure to achieve will tend to be based on tangibles: things that can be counted or inspected. Expanding the investigation into "how we do stuff" and why we do the things we do is a kind of voodoo medicine, subject to suspicion because it's so poorly understood.

Too often expectations don't include enough about "how we do stuff" but that the countable or inspectable outcome is produced. When this happens people aren't encouraged strongly enough to form good discipline in revision control or process tools like FMEA/MSA. When the organization rewards people based on countables/inspectables and not "how we do stuff" we may make wonderful product but be among the worst companies to work for. Groups are not working in sync with each other; technical top performers may act like tyrants within their groups. Bad behavior is tolerated because "He/she really gets results."

All of that is often hard to detect because again, people tend to have a narrow view. They will focus on things within their specialty and less so on impacts on their internal customers in dependent or downstream processes.

Standards are supposed to provide a framework so that all of this gets addressed. However, very often the elements are viewed as a list of requirements and a good deal of effort is expended to ensure those requirements don't intrude on what it is they really think they should be doing. That effort ranges from simple willful ignorance to maintaining a dual set of processes: one is a "dog and pony show" while the other one, which actually produces the outcomes, is favored and maintained.

I have also seen lots and lots of people who are poorly assigned roles. We hire/assign people based on what we expect out of the job, not about what the person is best positioned to deliver. They may not be given resources to do the job well, or they may not feel enough concern to press for resources, or they might not have (or believe they have) enough authority to press for these resources.

Lastly, though it should be listed first, we very often have a top management team that doesn't understand these things and how they work together to form dysfunction, or believe they should understand.
:2cents:

Excellant work Jennifer, thank you
 
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pearsonow

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

i agree, management is just a way of organization....why thus iso imply quality management while they are really measuring just if the organisatie is organized probably. Isn't it just a marketingterm?

Yes and no.

It does just ensure things are done correctly, I don't think anyone can argue with that, however the standard focusses in on some aspects which are 'Quality Related' Things like document control and Change Control. These are things which should be part of the overall Management System, but tend to be lumped to Quality.

Olly
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Leader
Admin
We have been certified and maintained that certification for many years, yet I would hold that ours is a failed system...

We have a mgmt rep that does not understand the process approach, a plant manager that does his best to circumvent what system we have (and manages to push any accountability away from himself) and a Executive VP who thinks everything is wonderful but acknowledges that lack of discipline towards requirements (system or customer) exists and can't be changed, and a President total unaware of any system....

Yet, there the certificate hangs...right there in the front lobby....
I am not convinced your system is a failure, though it's apparent that upper management has an awareness problem. The question of why is a different subject... But the system could be well enough supported by the process people to maintain certification.
 
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