Randy
Super Moderator
Or an auditor might not. In 20 years I've never received a dime and I've closed a lot including many that I didn't issue.
8D on Audit Non Conformance -- Incomplete Document
- Thread starter Golfman25
- Start date
Auditors
(1) shouldn't write up real nonconformances as OFIs. Soft grading isn’t as bad as writing something that isn’t nonconforming but it doesn’t help the organization either.
(2) shouldn’t write up things that aren’t nonconformances. This is just incompetence, chip on the shoulder crap. Soft grading isn’t the antidote to stupid write ups.
(3) shouldn’t write up trivial stuff that has no effect on product quality - just point it out and ask for correction and move on. Point made.
(4) In my opinion auditors shouldn’t even write OFIs. This is consulting at best and misplaced aggression at worst. The auditor usually doesn’t know enough to be effective at useful advice and if they are (like a few here) a simple discussion with the QM should suffice.
But this is just my opinion.
(1) shouldn't write up real nonconformances as OFIs. Soft grading isn’t as bad as writing something that isn’t nonconforming but it doesn’t help the organization either.
(2) shouldn’t write up things that aren’t nonconformances. This is just incompetence, chip on the shoulder crap. Soft grading isn’t the antidote to stupid write ups.
(3) shouldn’t write up trivial stuff that has no effect on product quality - just point it out and ask for correction and move on. Point made.
(4) In my opinion auditors shouldn’t even write OFIs. This is consulting at best and misplaced aggression at worst. The auditor usually doesn’t know enough to be effective at useful advice and if they are (like a few here) a simple discussion with the QM should suffice.
But this is just my opinion.
I agree. But why isn’t this standard training and supervision for auditors? I have had several that would fail all four points, especially #3.
The real reason is the result of commoditization of certification, leading to talent drain. Also, because the backlash of NC free audits for years on end, CB’s are “expecting” auditors to write up NCs. So, moronic and semi-moronic auditors write up stupid , valueless NCs to “pretend” they are “tough”.
Randy
Super Moderator
I hate agreeing with you, and I totally dislike closing those things out when I come across them.
There is supposed to be annual training. The quality of this will vary.
There is also supposed to be a review of reports before closing out. This is an opportunity for supervision (the CB managers can't be with us all the time) but the default approach is the dispute process. If a finding gets overturned we will surely hear about it.
Sure but it is clear to me that Bevs points are not covered in annual training. It is also clear that there is almost zero review of auditor reports. I even asked my CB about it and the couldn’t answer. I have also found that appeals are basically slanted in favor of the auditor. When I get an appeal response that uses the term “should have” it’s a pretty sorry state of affairs.
I don't understand how it's clear to you because my annual training includes this and 100% of our reports are reviewed.
Maybe you need a new CB?
Maybe you need a new CB?
@Golfman25 Jen is right. There are good and bad CBS and good and bad auditors. Your experience is valid but not universal. Get a new CB.
I am getting a new CB. But the guys I am currently using, and have been using, didn't just start. They are large, international, and I assume well "respected" to the public. But to say they suck is an understatement. I'm skeptical that a new CB would be any better, but we will find out.
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