Calibration required? We buy part of our machined parts - Supplier gage calibration?

[svance]

We have a debate going on need clarification of TS16949 7.6. We currently calibrate all the gages in our machine shop which makes our machine parts for our machines but do not make actual product being shipped to a customer. The debate is we buy part of our machine parts from outside vendors who make the part to a drawing and that we do not know if their gages are calibrated or not because the part meets the drawings. So if our parts in-house are made to a drawing also why must we include the gages in our calibration program? Any thoughts or ideals where I can get an answer would be appreciated.

 

[BradM]

Re: Calibration required?

First, I am not an expert in TS16949 7.6., so my comments may be null and void, depending on requirements in that specification.

I am a bit confused on this (I easily get confused...).

You have parts that you are using for something. These parts are made by an outside vendor, and in-house by you. You state both parts (are they the same?) should be the same, and compy with the same drawing.

1. If none of these parts are being shipped to the customer, why are they being made?

2. If you nor your supplier are calibrating instruments, how do you know (and to what level of confidence) that the parts conform to the drawing/specification?

I see where you stated you have calibrated instruments for one part of the process, but not the other.

like I stated, I am slow, and a little fuzzy picturing your process and how the components all fit together in the process.

Off the top, I would say that either the instruments actively measuring the production parameters need to be calibrated, the instruments used to assess conformance to the specifications, or possibly both.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Calibration required? We buy part of our machined parts - Supplier gage calibrati

We have a debate going on need clarification of TS16949 7.6. We currently calibrate all the gages in our machine shop which makes our machine parts for our machines but do not make actual product being shipped to a customer. The debate is we buy part of our machine parts from outside vendors who make the part to a drawing and that we do not know if their gages are calibrated or not because the part meets the drawings. So if our parts in-house are made to a drawing also why must we include the gages in our calibration program? Any thoughts or ideals where I can get an answer would be appreciated.

Calibration isn't done (or shouldn't be) in order to satisfy a standard or secondary requirement. Gage calibration is done because it makes sense to know whether or not your measurement equipment is efficacious--capable of performing as intended. The actor Spencer Tracy was asked once what he looked for in a script, and his response was "Days off." You shouldn't be perusing the standard looking for loopholes, or ways to avoid doing the necessary work. Do calibration because it makes good sense.

 

[AndyN]

Re: Calibration required? We buy part of our machined parts - Supplier gage calibrati

Very simply - in order to believe the results of any inspections or testing you do on your parts or your suppliers. This, in turn, will stop you from spending hours trying to find out why, when you have problems.

It has no relevance that you don't ship a product to a customer.

Your original post doesn't make it clear about how you know your suppliers parts are correct, although it appears you think they are. It's worrisome, also, that you don't know if your supplier has a calibration system either. This is fairly fundamental requirement to assuring your organization gets the parts you paid for.

Andy

 

[svance]

Re: Calibration required? We buy part of our machined parts - Supplier gage calibrati

Sorry for confusion. We are not looking for loopholes just clarification. We trend to overkill.

Our tool room make machine parts/tooling for our production machinery. They make them to a drawing. The machinist have gages they use to measure steel, aluminum, brass, etc for those parts. They have other gages they check the actual machine part with if necessary.

When I stated they did not go to a customer I was trying to relay that in the machine shop there is no actual product line being made. So therefore that was where our debate arose.

We are very good at calibrating all of our gages that measure our product based on the requirements of our control plans and will continue to be in compliance to protect our customers not to fulfill a standard. We did this a long time before we became certified.

We have never had an 3rd party auditor in 10 years to check or verify that the gages in the tool shop are calibrated that is one of the reasons I was asked to find a clarification for like so many others we need to do things because they are value added not time consuming with no real benefit.

Hope I have clarified my question.

 

[BradM]

Re: Calibration required? We buy part of our machined parts - Supplier gage calibrati

Yes! The clarification helps.

I guess technically, no, they do not have to be calibrated. They need to be clearly identified (training, etc.) so that they could never be used in the production area.

Many times individuals view calibration as a necessary evil; an expense, no value added. I'm not at all saying this is the case with you; you may feel opposite. However, since you did state your organization is having a debate; so I do feel it merits mentioning it.

Calibration, when done properly, adds a considerable value to the organization. In your present example, what if you have the internal-only parts come out wrong? Do you trash them and make new? How much does that cost you, in materials in labor? Granted, there is no perfect process, but having accurate, calibrated instruments removes that portion of error that attributes to the final defect.

So, with that said, I think they should be calibrated among the other gauges. Assuring they are kept separate is very difficult to consistently guarantee.

 

[svance]

Re: Calibration required? We buy part of our machined parts - Supplier gage calibrati

Thanks Brad for your response,
FYI
Our machine shop is located in a different section of the building and gages are kept seperate and all are identified with calibration stickers. Our debate mainly arose because our plant has gone through several reductions in the last 4 years and our machine shop employees are now at a minimum which has cut down on personal gages but not shop wide gages.