Advice on selecting an ISO 9001:2015 Lead Auditor Certification Course

[howste]

Amit, I thank you for your guidance! IRCA-certified, it is.

IRCA accreditation is common for accredited training courses in the UK and other countries. Here in the USA it's much more common to have Exemplar Global (was RABQSA) accreditation for ISO 9001 training or Probitas Authentication accreditation for AS9100 training.

 

[QSM_Rick]

IRCA accreditation is common for accredited training courses in the UK and other countries. Here in the USA it's much more common to have Exemplar Global (was RABQSA) accreditation for ISO 9001 training or Probitas Authentication accreditation for AS9100 training.

Thank you, that certainly made more sense to Google. Do you have any information about the reputation of Gladhill Associates International?

 

[Randy]

Gladhill is very good, Burt Gold was my 1st instructor about 20 years ago.

The thing about accredited training (training courses are accredited, not certified) is that they are all, every signle one, created to the exact same requirements, so the information is the same and the big difference is in the graphics and delivery style of the instructor.

I'm accepted by both IRCA and Exemplar Global as an instructor, I've delivered around 200 or so Lead Auditor courses of all types and my recommendation is to try to find a course that is being delivered by someone who has real world, hands on experience in the subject matter, which is not always the case these days.

A question is ....Why do you need to take a Lead Auditor course? More often that not a, Lead course is a waste of time and money for the person taking it unless it is an absolute requirement of the management system standard (which it isn't), is an absolute Accreditation Rule requirement in order for an organization to become certified by a CB, which may or may not be the case, or the individual taking the training will be doing or planning to do 3rd party CB audits such as I do well over 100 days a year.

Another question is....Why would you want to sit in a learning situation being instructed by someone who hasn't done it themselves or who lacks the level of experience to achieve that which they are instructing others to do?

You're fixing to spend a few thousand dollars ($$$$$) so be very sure what you do is worth the cost.

 

[Mikishots]

I recently took the AS9100D Lead Auditor course (Probitas authentication) with SAI Global and I was very happy with the content and material. I don't work for them, they are not our organization's registrar, just sharing my experience. Dr. Brian Balzer taught our course, very knowledgeable and competent trainer.

I have taken ISO training with other companies, wasn't impressed. I will not name them.

 

[QSM_Rick]

Gladhill is very good, Burt Gold was my 1st instructor about 20 years ago.

The thing about accredited training (training courses are accredited, not certified) is that they are all, every signle one, created to the exact same requirements, so the information is the same and the big difference is in the graphics and delivery style of the instructor.

I'm accepted by both IRCA and Exemplar Global as an instructor, I've delivered around 200 or so Lead Auditor courses of all types and my recommendation is to try to find a course that is being delivered by someone who has real world, hands on experience in the subject matter, which is not always the case these days.

A question is ....Why do you need to take a Lead Auditor course? More often that not a, Lead course is a waste of time and money for the person taking it unless it is an absolute requirement of the management system standard (which it isn't), is an absolute Accreditation Rule requirement in order for an organization to become certified by a CB, which may or may not be the case, or the individual taking the training will be doing or planning to do 3rd party CB audits such as I do well over 100 days a year.

Another question is....Why would you want to sit in a learning situation being instructed by someone who hasn't done it themselves or who lacks the level of experience to achieve that which they are instructing others to do?

You're fixing to spend a few thousand dollars ($$$$$) so be very sure what you do is worth the cost.

It's not a requirement, but the rest of the management team thinks it'll be a great benefit. I already have done audit-like work in the Army (ever hear of CIP and ARMS Inspections?), so I have a good grasp on what to do. That doesn't change just how overwhelming this bloody program is to someone that's been in the job for two weeks. This course is expected to alleviate that shock.

 

[normzone]

" This course is expected to alleviate that shock. "\

Ah, to be young again ... ;-)

But seriously, you will get good exposure to the standard. How that gets locally interpreted in practice is the other side of the coin.

 

[QSM_Rick]

" This course is expected to alleviate that shock. "\

Ah, to be young again ... ;-)

But seriously, you will get good exposure to the standard. How that gets locally interpreted in practice is the other side of the coin.

Young? ehhh...that's subjective.

 

[Randy]

It's not a requirement, but the rest of the management team thinks it'll be a great benefit. I already have done audit-like work in the Army (ever hear of CIP and ARMS Inspections?), so I have a good grasp on what to do. That doesn't change just how overwhelming this bloody program is to someone that's been in the job for two weeks. This course is expected to alleviate that shock.

Lets see, 29 years in uniform between the Marines & Army part of which I was a 67N/V & a 93B/19D acquiring over 5,000 crew hours mostly rotary and a majority during MTF at the NTC (I was QC for all the avaiation at Ft Irwin including rotation birds) & I'm an A&P

Yep ARMS & CIP were a part of life..

Anyway, if the Lead course isn't an absolute and you management aren't SME's in certification auditing tell them it's their money to waste.

You're in CA? I'm in Palmdale in 2 weeks auditing an aerospace company.

 

[QSM_Rick]

Lets see, 29 years in uniform between the Marines & Army part of which I was a 67N/V & a 93B/19D acquiring over 5,000 crew hours mostly rotary and a majority during MTF at the NTC (I was QC for all the avaiation at Ft Irwin including rotation birds) & I'm an A&P

Yep ARMS & CIP were a part of life..

Anyway, if the Lead course isn't an absolute and you management aren't SME's in certification auditing tell them it's their money to waste.

You're in CA? I'm in Palmdale in 2 weeks auditing an aerospace company.

Nice to see someone that speaks my same language. I'm your bench avnx guy; ASE, NAV, NVG.

While there are similarities between ARMS and ISO, transitioning between 08 and 15 isn't as easy as switching between ARMS versions, is it? Or are the civilians making it way harder on themselves and making this more complicated than it has to be?

I'm in CO, not CA and also no longer in the AVN world. After the kind of career I had, it was most certainly time to make a clean break from the defense industry. The money's not as plentiful outside the defense industry, but I think it's beyond time to be a civilian.

Since it seems the consensus that attending classes to gain my lead auditor cert is a waste of money, are there any classes that would realize a significant ROI?

 

[Randy]

Find a good solid "Internal" course especially if you're going to be auditing or managing the audit process...Less cost and shorter duration, but then again try to find out if the instructor actually audits (more than 2 days a year)...

Again Gladhill has been solid in the past, they started me out, but you also have a ton of others to choose from, and there's nothing wrong with asking for the resume of the instructor prior to spending the money.