Closing of Stage 2 Audit Nonconformances

[wbrand]

Hi Group,

So i am set to close out my NC's from my current Stage 2 ISO/AS9120B audit next week. Couple questions came up that I am hoping some experts like you all can shine some light on.

1. I have 7 MI & 1 MA NC's, since having a MA in contract review the auditor has to do a "on-site" audit. He emailed me saying he will be on-site for 2 days & for 8 hours each day. Now in my past, I've seen auditors come by for 1 day and at least 6 hours if that for NC closure (based on the objective evidence that was submitted prior to the RC due date). Is his time frame overkill? Is it fair for my company to incur his long stay fees instead of 1 day? Mind you, he is flying in from the east coast which will result in (hotel fee, car rental & meals).​

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2. Also, I thought MI NC's can be closed without on-site visit. Or has that now change? Were can I educate myself on how auditor prep themselves for closure or better yet, were can I read the guideline for NC closure?​

Apologize if this topic has been addressed already. I did a search and didn't find this or similar topic.

Thank you all in advance.

 

[Pjservan]

That seems that a bit excessive just for one MA. Granted, depending on the nature of your MI NC's, they might be considered highly critical or if there are concentrated in a particular process the auditor might want to do the close-up on-site. You should check with your CB and have them offer you a good justification as to why the follow-up visit is 2 days and not one day.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Also, I thought MI NC's can be closed without on-site visit. Or has that now change? Were can I educate myself on how auditor prep themselves for closure or better yet, were can I read the guideline for NC closure?

The aspect of nonconformity management is subject of the AS9101 standard. The verification activities associated with the implementation of corrective actions are typically split in two stages:

1. Review and concurrence that the corrective action PLAN addresses the identified root cause
2. Review of implementation and effectiveness of the actions taken.

#1 obviously is done remotely, but, unless the actual corrective action plan is something simple as a document revision/change, which can typically be verified remotely, the on-site verification of implementation and effectiveness is necessary.

#2 is, for the most part, always on-site. Audit planning requires the auditor to ensure time for such verification is allocated. So, to your question, it seems to me that the auditor will spend the time, either next week or during the subsequent surveillance audit.

As for the adequacy of the time (2 days) to verify implementation and effectiveness of the 8 corrective actions, without additional information/context, it is hard to speculate. One thing for sure, this time of the year, weather can be bad on the east coast....

PS. This issued is also addressed in ISO 17021-1:2015 section 9.4.10:

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PS₂. Based on your post, it looks like you communicate directly with the auditor about these issues. Remember that your organization has a contract with the CB, not the auditor; so, if you feel that the auditor might be "gouging" you, discuss this with the CB. They might not be aware of what a contracted auditor is "imposing" onto the customer.

 

[wbrand]

Thank you both for your feedback. I will contact my CB in the am.