Days between internal and external system audits

[luisa]

Hello,
Are there defined minimum days between internal and external audits?
Should the non-conformities of the internal audit be closed before the external audit?
Thanks

 

[Randy]

Nope and Nope

 

[Ashland78]

I work for a Big 3 company and we do internal audits throughout the entire year. We just show, only if asked, am audit that is in process.

In 2022 we had 53 different audits, this includes at least 4 minimum, manf process audits, 3 product audits, and the rest are QMS audits. In 2023 we had 47, this year we have 39 scheduled. I do not believe there is a "rule" in the rule book in regards to this.


Having done this over 20 years, I hope you don't do one audit in the year covering all the items I explained above. That I have seen be a catastrophe for the results. I have worked for companies that did that, but they were very novice in auditing.

I typically have 4 audits per month scheduled. I do not audit all of these, there are team members that do these too that have been trained.

 

[dramman]

Hello,
Are there defined minimum days between internal and external audits?
Should the non-conformities of the internal audit be closed before the external audit?
Thanks

you also do not need to do the internal audit at one time. You spread it out throughout the year in sections.

 

[Randy]

you also do not need to do the internal audit at one time. You spread it out throughout the year in sections.

Bad advice, there has to be evidence of a fully complete internal audit and a fully complete management review for an initial certification.

 

[luisa]

I work for a Big 3 company and we do internal audits throughout the entire year. We just show, only if asked, am audit that is in process.

In 2022 we had 53 different audits, this includes at least 4 minimum, manf process audits, 3 product audits, and the rest are QMS audits. In 2023 we had 47, this year we have 39 scheduled. I do not believe there is a "rule" in the rule book in regards to this.


Having done this over 20 years, I hope you don't do one audit in the year covering all the items I explained above. That I have seen be a catastrophe for the results. I have worked for companies that did that, but they were very novice in auditing.

I typically have 4 audits per month scheduled. I do not audit all of these, there are team members that do these too that have been trained.

My question is about system audits (I think it was clear when I said internal and external).
Of course we do more audits, (product, production process, LPA, ....).

 

[Jen Kirley]

My question is about system audits (I think it was clear when I said internal and external).
Of course we do more audits, (product, production process, LPA, ....).

As Randy said, there is no requirement for how many days between internal system audits and external audits. Nor is it required that nonconformities be closed out before an external audit. There isn't even a requirement for all of the system audits to have been completed, although there is an expectation to see that everything gets audited within the three-year certificate cycle - even though, no that is not specifically stated either.

This is, of course the case for organizations that are already certified. If going through the Stage 1 I have seen the requirement that everything (system and process audits) be gone through at least once, NCs closed and management review held which includes the results of audits.

 

[Golfman25]

I work for a Big 3 company and we do internal audits throughout the entire year. We just show, only if asked, am audit that is in process.

In 2022 we had 53 different audits, this includes at least 4 minimum, manf process audits, 3 product audits, and the rest are QMS audits. In 2023 we had 47, this year we have 39 scheduled. I do not believe there is a "rule" in the rule book in regards to this.


Having done this over 20 years, I hope you don't do one audit in the year covering all the items I explained above. That I have seen be a catastrophe for the results. I have worked for companies that did that, but they were very novice in auditing.

I typically have 4 audits per month scheduled. I do not audit all of these, there are team members that do these too that have been trained.

A lot depends on the size of your company. Small companies can easily get away with the "once a year audit."