I was worried about my first audit meeting with the coordinator for it. However, whilst I thought I hadn't enough meat to it the guy told me I'd done well. Since then I've seen that I've done more with it than more experienced and senior people to me, ones with lead auditor qualification. I think I know enough to do OK but i feel like i need to know more. Or at least get the paper certificate that proves what I know and can do.
Finally got a proper quality job - now do I know enough to do it?
- Thread starter TPMB4
- Start date
The good thing about my job is I had a slow start so I read a lot of process and other documents. I read loads of audit reports. I searched thorough the places information, metrics and shared files are stored. Also, I did as many of the free e- learning courses I thought might be of use both on the company systems and other places like LinkedIn.
On top of that, when I got given a few assurance jobs I got easy ones or ones that were annual activities with a history before assigned to me. A good way in. I now have totally new assurance activities to scope out for myself before carrying out the activities.
I did more APQP / PPAP, CA/PA activities in my old job but that's a small company you got to do a bit of everything too. This is a big company with various teams to do specific things closely defined. The size difference gives me a lot to learn in and of itself. Despite that there's change always going on. People moving to different jobs is a surprisingly common issue.
On top of that, when I got given a few assurance jobs I got easy ones or ones that were annual activities with a history before assigned to me. A good way in. I now have totally new assurance activities to scope out for myself before carrying out the activities.
I did more APQP / PPAP, CA/PA activities in my old job but that's a small company you got to do a bit of everything too. This is a big company with various teams to do specific things closely defined. The size difference gives me a lot to learn in and of itself. Despite that there's change always going on. People moving to different jobs is a surprisingly common issue.
No but there's several forms for the various types of audit, confirmations, etc Along with processes (written procedures and process flowchart types of documents). They're a good way to see how the company and especially those experienced ppl in the company doing the assurance do it. Then when you can see the filed audits, NCs and associated documents, you see how the company deals with the findings of the audit process. Very much into SMART actions and metrics related.
You can learn a lot by the paper trail of experienced auditors within a company I reckon. If you can't exactly be there, in my case because I was still at my old company, then you can at least follow the auditor after the fact from recorded information and documents. Better than nothing at least. You could say it's like a modern, big company version of a kid hunting with experienced bushmen from his village.
You can learn a lot by the paper trail of experienced auditors within a company I reckon. If you can't exactly be there, in my case because I was still at my old company, then you can at least follow the auditor after the fact from recorded information and documents. Better than nothing at least. You could say it's like a modern, big company version of a kid hunting with experienced bushmen from his village.
There is all sorts of material out there for learning how to perform audits. In the order of formal to informal: there are high-dollar Lead Auditor training courses, there is the ASQ Certified Auditor Handbook (also available in specialties like food safety and medical device), and there are how-to books like Internal Auditing in Plain English - as well as so many others trying to simply explain it.
All of the expensive courses and certifications such as ASQ and Exemplar Global (used to be RABQSA) try to establish expertise and competence, but it isn't enough. Like Randy said, so much is about observing and doing. I have seen auditors with all those certification letters after their names and still been underwhelmed by their performance.
Good auditing requires a curious mind and ability & willingness to discuss a process on a level with the users, as well as the ability to analyze and pick away layers in order to understand what is really happening - without these soft skills, all that expensive training results in just certificates. Remember that the purpose of the audit is to verify effectiveness first, and in the course of doing so verifying conformance to requirements. This is assuming the process has been set up in such a way that is conforming to requirements. As you gain more skill you can learn to spot when the process itself has a gap in it.
My point is, effectiveness first and try not to worry about technicalities right now. Those can be taught but first the soft skills must be established so the technical knowledge does some good.
I hope this helps.
Disclaimer: I am an ASQ member and hold Exemplar Global certifications for Quality Assurance and Responsible Care auditing.
All of the expensive courses and certifications such as ASQ and Exemplar Global (used to be RABQSA) try to establish expertise and competence, but it isn't enough. Like Randy said, so much is about observing and doing. I have seen auditors with all those certification letters after their names and still been underwhelmed by their performance.
Good auditing requires a curious mind and ability & willingness to discuss a process on a level with the users, as well as the ability to analyze and pick away layers in order to understand what is really happening - without these soft skills, all that expensive training results in just certificates. Remember that the purpose of the audit is to verify effectiveness first, and in the course of doing so verifying conformance to requirements. This is assuming the process has been set up in such a way that is conforming to requirements. As you gain more skill you can learn to spot when the process itself has a gap in it.
My point is, effectiveness first and try not to worry about technicalities right now. Those can be taught but first the soft skills must be established so the technical knowledge does some good.
I hope this helps.
Disclaimer: I am an ASQ member and hold Exemplar Global certifications for Quality Assurance and Responsible Care auditing.
As for 'enjoyable' books of the kind, try Trevor Kletz's "What Went Wrong". Even though I'm not in the process industry, it kept me hooked and taught me approximate knowledge of many things.
I think both courses are run by Lloyd's Register (actually LRQA). I think they're a good organisation but no idea if that translates to a good course. If a respected and known organisation I think the qualification would have value, certificate counts on a cv I guess.
I've got no quality sector qualifications just experience based soft skills in quality. It's why I struggle in working out where I sit in the CQI competency framework. Whilst a certificate doesn't prove competency it signposts a general level I think.
I'm currently an associate member of the CQI. I chose to join on that level but I suspect I'm probably at the level of practitioner. I've got 11 years with quality as part of my job. Small company so many, many hats! I've sat through audit courses run internally by a director who was trained at Ford in quality, lead auditor training and 15 plus years doing it at Ford plus longer period working as QM in companies in various sectors but mostly automotive sector. That course gave me the beginnings but most of my CPD has been self learning from Internet, books, experience and from customers too. There's one customer SQA with a very long experience that had a reputation of a difficult person to work with. Perhaps being close to retirement or just that it was to his advantage but he probably trained me more than anyone else. He was great with me.
Anyway, my goal now in my new job is to fill the gaps, as I see it. Part of that is using training to evidence things I mostly know. I've already done a few courses where I really didn't learn much new stuff, for example on one I learnt that I actually knew the topic which I didn't know I knew before it!
I've got no quality sector qualifications just experience based soft skills in quality. It's why I struggle in working out where I sit in the CQI competency framework. Whilst a certificate doesn't prove competency it signposts a general level I think.
I'm currently an associate member of the CQI. I chose to join on that level but I suspect I'm probably at the level of practitioner. I've got 11 years with quality as part of my job. Small company so many, many hats! I've sat through audit courses run internally by a director who was trained at Ford in quality, lead auditor training and 15 plus years doing it at Ford plus longer period working as QM in companies in various sectors but mostly automotive sector. That course gave me the beginnings but most of my CPD has been self learning from Internet, books, experience and from customers too. There's one customer SQA with a very long experience that had a reputation of a difficult person to work with. Perhaps being close to retirement or just that it was to his advantage but he probably trained me more than anyone else. He was great with me.
Anyway, my goal now in my new job is to fill the gaps, as I see it. Part of that is using training to evidence things I mostly know. I've already done a few courses where I really didn't learn much new stuff, for example on one I learnt that I actually knew the topic which I didn't know I knew before it!
toniriazor
Involved In Discussions
People said the same about my past manager - that he is a bad guy, but I could learn so much from him. These people that are tough are the best leaders. I think to learn and improve you must have a contact with people that know more than you. The problem is that often this is not the case.
Similar threads
