Microsoft Smart Art Turtle Diagram

[jam325]

Does anyone know if there is a Microsoft smart art graphic for a turtle diagram? I have found smart art is great for making simple flowcharts, but can't find a process diagram. We have a good template for turtle diagrams but it is very slow to fill them in and the format often gets messed up when people are trying to update the diagrams.
Thanks!

 

[John Broomfield]

Why are you using turtle diagrams as system documents?

At best these diagrams help process owners to ensure their procedures (as documented and undocumented) are reasonably complete.

Then their role as an analytical tool is over and the turtles are archived. The procedures then continue to be kept up to date for as long as they serve the system.

What ongoing use do old turtle diagrams have?

 

[Kirby]

John, I recently had an auditor "advise" (definitely not "consult" !) that "some companies" use the turtle diagrams in the auditing process, I'm thinking maybe I misheard him and he really said "process diagram / flow chart"?

 

[blackholequasar]

We use turtle diagrams in our Quality Manual. Our ISO auditors have all commented that they like the format of having them to identify input and outputs as well as other resources. It's worked well for our ISO 9001:2015 audits!

 

[John Broomfield]

Interesting.

Impressing external auditors is why we are here (of course!).

How do the turtle diagrams help the employees to benefit customers?

 

[Kirby]

blackholequasar,
Thanks for the input, if you are doing it successfully and your auditors like it, I think you have winner!
In my experience Turtle Diagrams have been used more like John noted, to help process owners to ensure their procedures are reasonably complete as well as a summary of the components of the process, whereas a process diagram / flow chart allows us to see the sequence of how the process is accomplished. Sort of like how a recipe lists ingredients (Turtle) and then tells us how and when to use the ingredients (flow chart)?

One thing is for sure, there is often more than one "right" way to do things, it's all about what brings value to your processes in an efficient manner. I spend considerable time on this site just trying to see how other people approach things, and I've really benefited from the advise / opinions / views / methods of others in the quality community.

 

[John Broomfield]

Thanks.

I was wondering if the thoroughness of analyzing the inputs to a process and recording this work in a turtle diagram helped with preventing nonconformities from the process.

Also, are the turtle diagrams updated after each corrective action?

 

[Jim Wynne]

Thanks.

I was wondering if the thoroughness of analyzing the inputs to a process and recording this work in a turtle diagram helped with preventing nonconformities from the process.

Also, are the turtle diagrams updated after each corrective action?

I did the RABSQA/Exemplar lead auditor training five or six years ago and there was heavy emphasis on turtle diagrams. Auditors like them, but I don't think that's necessarily a good reason for them to exist. I don't know why you would need to update one after a corrective action.

 

[John Broomfield]

I did the RABSQA/Exemplar lead auditor training five or six years ago and there was heavy emphasis on turtle diagrams. Auditors like them, but I don't think that's necessarily a good reason for them to exist. I don't know why you would need to update one after a corrective action.

That was also my understanding as I said in #2 above.

But now I’m asking two quality professionals if and how the turtle diagrams benefit their customers.

Just trying to learn.

 

[Kirby]

John B.
Very good question!
If I'm one of two that you reference, my answer would be ...I dunno ...
I've been at this position for 6 - 7 months and kind of walked in to a less than ideal situation. Turtle diagrams were created in the winter of 2018 and initial AS9100 certification audit in January 2019, I came in July 2019 and the team had a lot of work to prepare for the first surveillance audit. The turtle diagrams were never really high on the "Action Items" list. Then the auditor mentioned their value in auditing and now we have a greater focus on developing them as a useful tool...or not. I've been a part of the Quality community for a while, and had a few brushes with Turtles, and as Jim stated, I've "learned" about them in various auditor training, but have not used them extensively.