Notification of Change of Material Supplier - PPAP Manual 4th Edition

F

filcavalli

#1
Situation: PPAP is approved. Material certification in PPAP file is from raw material supplier "A", the material is 1234.
Either due to availability or cost reasons, we purchase material from a different raw material supplier "(B)", but the material is the same, 1234. This customer has no specific requirements beyond TS/PPAP regarding notification or PPAP resubmission.

Questions:
Am I required to notify my customer that I changed raw material suppliers? This change mest be approved by my customer and after this approval I submit a PPAP documentation?

Any help on this subject is most appreciated.
Thank you
Luca
 
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D

dknox4

#2
Situation: PPAP is approved. Material certification in PPAP file is from raw material supplier "A", the material is 1234.
Either due to availability or cost reasons, we purchase material from a different raw material supplier "(B)", but the material is the same, 1234. This customer has no specific requirements beyond TS/PPAP regarding notification or PPAP resubmission.

Questions:
Am I required to notify my customer that I changed raw material suppliers? This change mest be approved by my customer and after this approval I submit a PPAP documentation?

Any help on this subject is most appreciated.
Thank you
Luca
IMO you need to notify your customer. refer to page 13 of PPAP 4th. You don't give details on what exactly the material being supplied is. If it is a commmodity type material with standard specifications, your customer may not be concerned with supplier changes. But if it has any speciaql qualities that can affect the final product, I would bet the customer would want at least a trial with updated PSW. Either way, IMO customer needs to be notified.
 
F

filcavalli

#3
IMO you need to notify your customer. refer to page 13 of PPAP 4th. You don't give details on what exactly the material being supplied is. If it is a commmodity type material with standard specifications, your customer may not be concerned with supplier changes. But if it has any speciaql qualities that can affect the final product, I would bet the customer would want at least a trial with updated PSW. Either way, IMO customer needs to be notified.
I agree with you about that the notification is obligatory but my second question is: I can use the other supplier only after approval by my customer? and, after this approval Must I submitted PPAP?

Thanks a lot for collaboration!
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
IMO you need to notify your customer. refer to page 13 of PPAP 4th. You don't give details on what exactly the material being supplied is. If it is a commmodity type material with standard specifications, your customer may not be concerned with supplier changes. But if it has any speciaql qualities that can affect the final product, I would bet the customer would want at least a trial with updated PSW. Either way, IMO customer needs to be notified.
Although I think it's usually best to err on the side of notification, I also think this is another of those "it depends" situations. The requirement cited in the PPAP manual is anything but clear. Quoting from #5 on page 13:
Change of supplier for parts, non-equivalent materials, or services (e.g., heat-treating, plating).
In the "Clarifications" column it says:
The organization is responsible for approval of supplier provided material and services
. What this all means is anyone's guess--it's not very helpful.

My own take on it is that if the material in question is proprietary (a certain DuPont thermoplastic resin, e.g.) there should be no need for notification, but if the material is specified and purchased in a generic form (ABS resin, 12L14 steel, e.g.) there should be some evidence that the material is what it's supposed to be beyond the material supplier's say-so.

It's probably best to notify in any event, and the worst thing that's likely to happen is a new PPAP, which would provide the customer with evidence that the material in question is equivalent. Even if no new submission is required, you're still obliged to appropriately update the PPAP file, which should include evidence of qualification of the "new" material.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#5
I agree with you about that the notification is obligatory but my second question is: I can use the other supplier only after approval by my customer? and, after this approval Must I submitted PPAP?

Thanks a lot for collaboration!
Your notification to the customer should include the advice that you are going to use the material from the new supplier immediately, based on your determination of its equivalence. You've fulfilled your obligation by notifying the customer. They might ask for a PPAP submission, but they should not expect your production to be suspended pending approval.
 
D

dknox4

#6
I agree with you about that the notification is obligatory but my second question is: I can use the other supplier only after approval by my customer? and, after this approval Must I submitted PPAP?

Thanks a lot for collaboration!
The second suplier would PPAP to you. You in turn would PPAP to your customer with the new supplied material in your product.
 
D

dknox4

#7
Your notification to the customer should include the advice that you are going to use the material from the new supplier immediately, based on your determination of its equivalence. You've fulfilled your obligation by notifying the customer. They might ask for a PPAP submission, but they should not expect your production to be suspended pending approval.
I don't have experience with a wide range of customers, but the ones I do deal with would consider notification of my changing suppliers and directly shipping (based only on my analysis and determination of equivalence) a "violaton of trust". I only ship with a customer approved deviation from a current PPAP, or a fully PPAPed part. After notification, my customers may approve a change without a trial, but usually require at a minimum a trial run through thier process.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
I don't have experience with a wide range of customers, but the ones I do deal with would consider notification of my changing suppliers and directly shipping (based only on my analysis and determination of equivalence) a "violaton of trust". I only ship with a customer approved deviation from a current PPAP, or a fully PPAPed part. After notification, my customers may approve a change without a trial, but usually require at a minimum a trial run through thier process.
I understand, which is why I said it's usually best to notify, regardless of the precise requirement.
 
J

JaxQC

#9
I agree with you about that the notification is obligatory but my second question is: I can use the other supplier only after approval by my customer? and, after this approval Must I submitted PPAP?

Thanks a lot for collaboration!
Actually I would consider Customer approval & PPAP as related. In this case your PPAP may just include a warrant and the new supplier material certs / analysis. The Customer approval would be of the PPAP paperwork submitted. In my mind PPAP can be whatever you want to make of it. Always needs to be done but, depending on the risk of the change and the Customer’s comfort level with you, it’s up to you & the Customer to decide what needs to be included in the PPAP.

· Heads up to Customer on upcoming change.
· Confirm requirements for PAPP (warrant only, mat’l certs or full chem. analysis).
· Gather info and submit PPAP
· Customer reviews & approval is the signoff on the submitted info (electronic or hardcopy).
 
F

filcavalli

#10
In conclusion, if I understand all:

1° Send the notification to customer
2° To wait his approval of my notification to use a new supplier of same raw material
3° Only after approval I can start with the production and in the same time I send a PPAP presentation

Thanks to all for collaboration!:):D
 
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