TS 16949 Containment Requirements - Must be Reported to Your Registrar?

[Teri - 2011]

Good morning!

For QS 9000 if a tier 1 was placed on containment by their customer, you had to report it to your CB.
Is that requirement the same for TS??

We are a tier 2, so we never had to report it for QS. We are currently TS regirstered, and just placed on containment by one of our customers. I have searched thru the TS books, can find anything.

Any help out there?

Thanks!

 

[LMO]

Containment

Even under QS-9000 you never really had to report it to your Register.

All the compnaies that I have worked for that were put on controlled shipping, we never informed our register.

I just looked through the TS Standard and I did see that note in it. But that is not to say that it is not noted somewhere.

That requirement was just so that your auditor had something else to look for the next time that they came in.

I wouldn' t tell my auditor! But that is me!

You could always call and ask your register if that requirement is part of the TS standard.

Best to you,

 

[SilverHawk]

Special Status Customer Notifications

Obviously, we cannot find the the word, "containment" in the TS2 requirement itself. The closest it can come along would be under clause 7.4.3.2 Supplier Monitoring where supplier performance shall be monitored thru' following indications including "when the organization receive special status customer notification".

The "customer notifications" appear in the next important clause 8.2.1.1 Customer Satisfaction.

As from the Big Three, e.g DCX mentioned in the CSR 4.1.6 that an organization has to notify the CB in writing within 5 working days when places under "Need Improvement"; Ford in the CSR under 4.38 also required to inform the CB within 5 days when places under "Q1 Revocation" and GM in the CSR 4.2.8 under "New Business Hold - Quality".

So if your organization is a Tier 1 and supplying to these Big Three, you have to inform your CB within 5 working or buisness day if your organization is placed under the above mentioned status.

During the QS-9000 era, the word, "containment" was used.

So, Mr TS Auditor, you're wrong ! But if your organization is not supply to the Big Three, look into their CSR.

I believed that some customers may requested the organization to put on hold for certain quality problem products but no the special status notification. Then the organization does not have to inform the CB within 5 days.

Correct me if I am wrong!!!

 

[Teri - 2011]

Thanks, Actually, that is the exact line I was thinking. I knew QS stated that you had to report it, if you were tier 1 (with each calling it something different), to me it is all controlled shipping or containment.

So at this point, I am not going to report it, as there is nothing (at least that I can find) in my CSR.


Thank you very much!!

 

[Howard Atkins]

I think that the CSR are the guide
4.38 of the Ford CSR

Customer Satisfaction (ISO/TS 16949:2002 cl. 8.2.1.1, 5.2) Certification Body/Registrar Notification The organization shall notify its certification body/registrar of record in writing within five (5) working days if Ford Motor Company places the site on Q1 Revocation. This notification of the registrar will constitute a "customer claim" as defined by the ISO/TS 16949:2002 Rules. This step will place the organization's ISO/TS 16949:2002 certification on probation. Both Ford Motor Company and the registrar must agree with the organization's plan and actions to reinstate the certification within 90 days, or as agreed in writing between Ford and the registrar, otherwise the certificate will be cancelled

This is the same wording as the QS but involves Ford in the process.
This is refered to in the "Rules for achieving IATF recognition on page 26 under decertification process.

 

[Al Dyer]

ISO/TS 19649 2002 Section 5.2--

"5.2: Top management shall ensure that customer requirements are determined and are met with the aim of enhancing customer satisfaction" see 7.2.1 and 8.2.1.

These sections clearly state that customer requirements (containment) must be followed. For GM, Ford, and Chrysler, there are clear instructions as to what is required when a product is put on containment status.

If needed I will forward all of the customer specifics I have on file.

Al...

 

[Sam]

Ditto Howard and Al; the CSR's tell all.

 

[LMO]

Well then according to some of your remarks your god? Almost every supplier to the Big 3 are in noncompliance with this requirement. And they are!! No company that I have ever worked for based to the requirement had to tell the register about formal containment activities!! (Level I, Level II, NB hold)

I worked for one company that was placed on New Business Hold 3 times in one year. The registers never brought up that they were not notified.

Several times we even asked our customer (GM) and they could not define the requirement!

The intention was to have the supplier notify the register of formal containment (Level I, Level II or New Business Hold) but that was the intention only. And no one that I never whated for had to based to the requirement as written!

Obviously, we cannot find the the word, "containment" in the TS2 requirement itself. The closest it can come along would be under clause 7.4.3.2 Supplier Monitoring where supplier performance shall be monitored thru' following indications including "when the organization receive special status customer notification".

The "customer notifications" appear in the next important clause 8.2.1.1 Customer Satisfaction.

As from the Big Three, e.g DCX mentioned in the CSR 4.1.6 that an organization has to notify the CB in writing within 5 working days when places under "Need Improvement"; Ford in the CSR under 4.38 also required to inform the CB within 5 days when places under "Q1 Revocation" and GM in the CSR 4.2.8 under "New Business Hold - Quality".

So if your organization is a Tier 1 and supplying to these Big Three, you have to inform your CB within 5 working or buisness day if your organization is placed under the above mentioned status.

During the QS-9000 era, the word, "containment" was used.

So, Mr TS Auditor, you're wrong ! But if your organization is not supply to the Big Three, look into their CSR.

I believed that some customers may requested the organization to put on hold for certain quality problem products but no the special status notification. Then the organization does not have to inform the CB within 5 days.

Correct me if I am wrong!!!

 

[Greg Maggard]

Hello,

I had a situation in our audits for TS that I had to update my 8-D format to include a couple of things. one, we referred to the 7.4.3.2 Supplier Monitoring. How do we track maitained by purchase Dept. in our Level II

two, step 7 on our Notification of Customer Complaint form
Systems: Update FMEA's similar products/processes affected and policies/systems that allowed defects to occur. Is the quality system effective? Does it require a change? Consider increasing the internal auti frequence of effected element. (Review Control Plan for overall accuracy as part of this.)

As a result of this change in our systems. We shared this with our Customers as well as our Suppliers. All understand and have shown positive results.....and way better communications between all, even sales Dept.

Sales is key. Our sales is actually our customer we are their supplier. They are the middle men/women in our org. It was important to have items clear with them so as they delt with Customer they understood what we agreed on and the customer needs......not the quick fix and saying things we could not do.
I hope this has helped

 

[LUV-d-4UM]

Re: Special Status Customer Notifications

Under rule4 when an organization has a major in a TS audit, the certificate is automatically suspended for 110 days during which the CB auditor will conduct a follow-up audit and recommend permanent suspension if the corrective action is not effective. No need to hide the information from customer. the OEM shall be notified of the temporary suspension.