ISO 10004:2012 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuring

[Sidney Vianna]

ISO has recently released (I suspect a press release is forthcoming) ISO/TS 10004. The abstract reads:

ISO/TS 10004:2010 provides guidance in defining and implementing processes to monitor and measure customer satisfaction.

ISO/TS 10004:2010 is intended for use by organizations regardless of type, size or product provided. The focus of ISO/TS 10004:2010 is on customers external to the organization.

ISO/TS 10004:2010 is not intended for certification or contractual purposes, nor is it intended to change any rights or obligations under applicable statutory or regulatory requirements.

I wonder how long will it take for the first sucker organization to be certified to ISO 10004, just like ISO 10002 and PAS99....

 

[Stijloor]

Re: ISO/TS 10004:2010 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuri

ISO has recently released (I suspect a press release is forthcoming) ISO/TS 10004. The abstract reads:


I wonder how long will it take for the first sucker organization to be certified to ISO 10004, just like ISO 10002 and PAS99....

Certs look very attractive..

Stijloor.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: ISO/TS 10004:2010 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuri

Certs look very attractive..

Especially if they carry either the UKAB or ANAS logos on it.....

 

[vanputten]

Re: ISO/TS 10004:2010 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuri

Hello Sidney:

How would an organization become certified to ISO/TS 10004? Do you mean a non-accredited certification?

From the draft of TS 10004:

"0.4 Statements regarding conformity
This Technical Specification is not intended for certification or contractual purposes, nor is it intended to change any rights or obligations under applicable statutory or regulatory requirements.

ISO 10002 has this statement: "This International Standard is not intended for certification or contractual purposes."

DNV offers certification to PAS 99 or at least they used to.

Thank you,

Dirk

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: ISO/TS 10004:2010 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuri

How would an organization become certified to ISO/TS 10004? Do you mean a non-accredited certification?

If you peruse this thread, you will see that some CB's have certified organizations to ISO 10002. If you read this post, you will read that a Cove moderator states that PAS 99 is a certifiable standard, even though the document states

Certification to this PAS in its own right is not appropriate.

DNV offers certification to PAS 99 or at least they used to.

OK, Dirk. Do you have any objective evidence to that effect? It might be the case, but I don't recall seeing it.

 

[DrM2u]

Re: ISO/TS 10004:2010 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuri

Is it just me or there is a global tendency to over-standardize everything?!? :mg: What will be next?

 

[DrM2u]

Re: ISO/TS 10004:2010 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuri

On the topic of certification, I am leaning toward Dirk's position.

I could audit and certify that an organization adheres to a set of rules (ISO standard, FDA, EN, etc) regardless if the issuing authority states that the rules are just guidelines and/or not certifieble to. I would be entitled to do so and conduct my certification business as long as I do not break any local, national or international laws. The question is whether or not my cetification meets my client's needs (customer requirements, corporate plans, etc). It is up to my professional integrity to ensure that I meet my obligations to my client and that I make my client aware of any related implications.

It is also up to my ability as a salesperson to convince the client that my services add value to the organization and regard the certification as an investment instead of a cost.

These being said, I venture to guess that less scrupulous consultants and organizations already are pushing for this certification. Let's face it: money talks! Also, ignorance and stupidity are expensive traits!

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: ISO/TS 10004:2010 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuri

I could audit and certify that an organization adheres to a set of rules (ISO standard, FDA, EN, etc) regardless if the issuing authority states that the rules are just guidelines and/or not certifieble to. I would be entitled to do so and conduct my certification business as long as I do not break any local, national or international laws. The question is whether or not my cetification meets my client's needs (customer requirements, corporate plans, etc). It is up to my professional integrity to ensure that I meet my obligations to my client and that I make my client aware of any related implications.

I copy a reply that I offered to another question:

Then the unanswerable question would be: how can one objectively assess conformance and attain certification to a GUIDANCE standard? One of the basic precepts of management system certification is the ability for an organization to objectively assess conformance against auditable requirements. Any management system professional realizes the challenges of conformance verification against "clear cut" requirements and the practical "impossibility" of demonstrating conformance to guidance documents. That is why, in the ISO 9000 family of documents (comprised in it's majority by GUIDANCE DOCUMENTS), only a couple of standards are certifiable.

All of the ISO Guidance documents can be put to good use. It just does not have to be via a CERTIFICATION ROUTE. If we already have tremendous disparity of interpretation and implementation with "clear cut" auditable, requirements-based standards, I can only imagine how much heterogeneity we would have with guidance documents.

 

[howste]

Re: ISO/TS 10004:2010 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuri

What are the criteria for determining conformity to a guidance document?

ISO 19011 is a guidance document that I'm very familiar with. What if we decided to provide certification services to it? I believe ISO 19011 has good guidance, however if I included all of the content for an audit report that ISO 19011 says I "should" or "may" include in the report, most of my audit reports would weigh two or three times as much as they do now.

If I leave out some items that the standard says the report "should" include, would that stop my certification to that standard? If not, where does the auditor draw the line?

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: ISO/TS 10004:2010 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuri

What are the criteria for determining conformity to a guidance document?

Very simple: the guidance should be "complied" with. But if it isn't, that's ok. You still get certified......