Bad Auditor - Is it normal to ask the registrar to send a different auditor

Is it normal to ask the registrar to send us another auditor because the one they send us last year we didn't like him?
Here I've seen lots of companies doing that. What the registrar generally asks is the reason why.

In one organization I work for, we are thinking about this motive for asking for another auditor:
- Last year's auditoria’s non conformances didn’t give the company any value added. According to ISO 9001:2000 8.5.2 c), the non conformances written in the audit report were all solved just by applying corrections. None of them resulted in corrective actions.

I think this could be a good reason for changing auditor; the problem is that this particular auditor is very important for this registrar.

Should this organization change their registrar?

Don't forget that you are the customer.

There is nothing wrong with asking for different auditor if you feel that you did not receive value from the last audit. If you are paying a healthy sum and not receiving value, change auditors or even change registrars if you have to.

António Vieira said:

Is it normal to ask the registrar to send us another auditor because the one they send us last year we didn't like him?
Here I've seen lots of companies doing that. What the registrar generally asks is the reason why.

In one organization I work for, we are thinking about this motive for asking for another auditor:
- Last year's auditoria’s non conformances didn’t give the company any value added. According to ISO 9001:2000 8.5.2 c), the non conformances written in the audit report were all solved just by applying corrections. None of them resulted in corrective actions.

I think this could be a good reason for changing auditor; the problem is that this particular auditor is very important for this registrar.

Should this organization change their registrar?

Click to expand...

My Gramps always said, "When in doubt, tell the truth!"

In your own mind, you must

1. first identify the shortcomings of the audit visit as you perceive them
2. next decide what were individual failures of the auditor and what were systemic failures between your expectations and the normal procedures of ANY of the Registrar's auditors.

Having done that, then you can make a decision whether you need a different auditor or a restructuring of the contract of what you expect from any auditor the registrar sends.

Does this make sense? The point is not whether you are the customer and always "right," but whether you and your organization have an accurate understanding with the Registrar of what you expect and what the Registrar can deliver based on your contract.

I'm biting my tongue on this one real hard because the initial post hit my DUH button hard.

I'm having a hard time with the no value added from identifying non-conformances statement, and with this statement "the non conformances written in the audit report were all solved just by applying corrections. None of them resulted in corrective actions."

António Vieira said:

Is it normal to ask the registrar to send us another auditor because the one they send us last year we didn't like him?

Click to expand...

Yes it is - Don't hestitate. But - Explain why with details.

Randy said:

I'm biting my tongue on this one real hard because the initial post hit my DUH button hard.

I'm having a hard time with the no value added from identifying non-conformances statement, and with this statement "the non conformances written in the audit report were all solved just by applying corrections. None of them resulted in corrective actions."

Click to expand...

You did that well Randy! You can open your jaws again...

António Vieira said:

Is it normal to ask the registrar to send us another auditor because the one they send us last year we didn't like him?
.......
I think this could be a good reason for changing auditor; the problem is that this particular auditor is very important for this registrar.

Should this organization change their registrar?

Click to expand...

Sure any organization can request an auditor reassignment and/or change registrars if they are unhappy. However, this organization was also wrong to offer corrections, in lieu of true corrective actions to the auditor. Both parties are at fault here. The 3rd party auditor for accepting it, as well as the certified organizations for not doing root cause investigation of the nonconformities.

Can you address why they offered corrections, instead of corrective actions? Were you involved with the responses to the registrar?

Randy said:

I'm biting my tongue on this one real hard

Click to expand...

Wow... That's a first Did it hurt?

/Claes

Claes Gefvenberg said:

Wow... That's a first Did it hurt?

/Claes

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I think I heard him say, "Noth thvery muth!" I'm not really sure - the big bandage around his tongue was making communication difficult.

Based on what I read in the original posting, I can identify with what Antonio has expressed.

I dealt with an auditor for several years who seemed to be prone to imposing what he perceived to be “best practices” rather than the requirements of the standard(s). Consequently, his “OFI’s” were all minor in nature (not a single major NC during the contract period) and we received very little value from his auditing, IMO. In addition, many of our QMS docs became laced with “requirements”, as a result of the C/A activity, that had no relationship to the standard or any regulatory imposition. Some still remain to this day and we remove them when we stumble upon them and can’t justify their existence.

The person was also abrasive and confrontational (loved to argue). We continued to use him until we changed registrars for cost reasons. Hindsight being 20/20………..we should have done something much sooner.

Auditors are not always “right”. You have the right as a customer to go shopping if you are not happy. However, if the next guy identifies the same shortcomings, you may have to do some “soul searching”.