Which should be documented first? The six mandatory procedures or other processes?

Which processes would you advice to document first, the six mandatory procedures or other processes?

Perhaps the sequence doesn't matter at all.

If it helps how you might respond, we are planning to go for ISO 9001 certification next year.

Thank you.

Re: Which should be documented first, the six mandatory procedures or other processes

It seems to me that before you start documenting procedures and maintaining records the controls should be in place.

"Chicken or egg?"

Do whatever you think is best because you'll get 40-11 different answers and wind up right back to your original question

Re: Which should be documented first? The six mandatory procedures or other processes

anonymous skeptic said:

Which processes would you advice to document first, the six mandatory procedures or other processes?

Perhaps the sequence doesn't matter at all.

If it helps how you might respond, we are planning to go for ISO 9001 certification next year.

Thank you.

Click to expand...

I'm going to tell you from an implementation point of view...

Since the 6 are not usually found in many businesses, and therefore you won't (perhaps) have much experience on how to write them, you probably need some help with those.

For example, since document and record control are very basic, even before you start out with anything else, it might pay to get some help to write those and do them first, so that all the other documentation can be reviewed, approved and released/changed to that procedure...

So, before you write anything else, you must have these two basics in place. You can't take corrective action, define and document a process flow, work instruction, etc without document control, at the very minimum! If you have a plan for implementation - defining tasks etc, then you might want to have document control over that too!...

Re: Which should be documented first, the six mandatory procedures or other processes

Randy said:

It seems to me that before you start documenting procedures and maintaining records the controls should be in place.

"Chicken or egg?"

Do whatever you think is best because you'll get 40-11 different answers and wind up right back to your original question

Click to expand...

Best advise you can get.
By the time you go for certification you will have everything in place so precisely where you start really doesn't matter.

The most important thing would be to make sure that as you move forward you have a clear and integrated approach. This can save a lot of unnecessary procedures and also cut down on rewrites.

Peace
James

Re: Which should be documented first? The six mandatory procedures or other processes

I typically start with a corrective action process first, regardless of whether or not someone requires it or what format the written documentation takes. Corrective (and preventive) action can be used to drive so many other parts of a system, it is good to have it in place early.

Re: Which should be documented first? The six mandatory procedures or other processes

I agree with Andy. Corrective Action is very important and can be used to drive some of the other changes, but without a document control foundation how can you record and track the progress.

Re: Which should be documented first? The six mandatory procedures or other processes

anonymous skeptic said:

Which processes would you advice to document first, the six mandatory procedures or other processes?

Perhaps the sequence doesn't matter at all.

If it helps how you might respond, we are planning to go for ISO 9001 certification next year.

Thank you.

Click to expand...

The ISO 9001 standard is written in a common sense way how an enterprise should operate, on the PDCA system. Its perhaps good to document in the same way and as you go about, you will see that all the mandatory procedures are structural in nature ., in sense they are applicable across all functions of the enterprise. and it binds them with a common purpose. The other procedures may or may not be required and this depends upon your comfort level and confidence of the personnel and system.

Re: Which should be documented first? The six mandatory procedures or other processes

anonymous skeptic said:

Which processes would you advice to document first, the six mandatory procedures or other processes?

Perhaps the sequence doesn't matter at all.

If it helps how you might respond, we are planning to go for ISO 9001 certification next year.

Thank you.

Click to expand...

I believe that the first documents to be established should be the quality policy and objectives. The rest of the system should be built to help to achieve them, so as other documents are written they can be considered.

The QMS processes should probably also be defined before starting to write procedural documents.

ISO 9001:2008 said:

5.4.2 Quality management system planning
Top management shall ensure that
a) the planning of the quality management system is carried out in order to meet the requirements given in 4.1, as well as the quality objectives

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ISO 9000:2005 said:

3.2.2 management system
system (3.2.1) to establish policy and objectives and to achieve those objectives

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Beyond that, as has been mentioned before, probably the control of documents and records procedures would be a good starting point.

Re: Which should be documented first? The six mandatory procedures or other processes

I believe that the first documents to be established should be the quality policy and objectives.

Click to expand...

Really? And they, being system documents/records, are to controlled how?

Re: Which should be documented first? The six mandatory procedures or other processes

Randy said:

Really? And they, being system documents/records, are to controlled how?

Click to expand...

A wise man once said:

Randy said:

"Chicken or egg?"

Click to expand...

Content first, then control.