Auditing - System Approach and Process Approach Differences?

[haifeng]

Why not call it system approach audit?
Why strengthen it's a process approach audit?
What's the difference between system approach and process approach?
In auto industryk, IATF require the auditor perform the audit by process approach, where's it from?
Who initially invent such a theory? What's kind of basis for him/her to strengthen such a theory?
Why not strenghthen system audit? Is the process approach only a approach for system audit?

 

[Marc]

I would think they're basically the same thing.

As to the origin of the process approach, I was 'taught' it back in the 1980's. It wasn't a buzz word then, but 'process approach' is nothing new.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Why not call it system approach audit?
Why strengthen it's a process approach audit?
What's the difference between system approach and process approach?
In auto industryk, IATF require the auditor perform the audit by process approach, where's it from?
Who initially invent such a theory? What's kind of basis for him/her to strengthen such a theory?
Why not strenghthen system audit? Is the process approach only a approach for system audit?

In QS-9000 & ISO 9001:1994, the system was broken in 20 elements. Everyone managed and audited their system by these elements. But most people run their companies by Dept. or by process. The elements were not a good approach. The new standards (TS, ISO 9001) want the system to be audited along this "process approach." It is not really new. It just takes out this detour we made into elements. Many auditors and managers have already been folowing some version of this process approach for years. Now it is required.

 

[v9991]

Re: What's the difference between system approach and process approach?

I had chanced upon this query (i was myself looking for some answers for my own understanding); Here's an document which provides insight into the system approach and process approach.

(broken link removed)

Hope that its relevant/usefull to the context.

 

[AndyN]

Why not call it system approach audit?
Why strengthen it's a process approach audit?
What's the difference between system approach and process approach?
In auto industryk, IATF require the auditor perform the audit by process approach, where's it from?
Who initially invent such a theory? What's kind of basis for him/her to strengthen such a theory?
Why not strenghthen system audit? Is the process approach only a approach for system audit?

A lot of questions! No-one 'invented' this - quality audits were taught as process audits a long time ago (late 80s) and somewhere people found it easier to take the individual requirements of the standard and audit that. There are too many reasons to go into. In my mind, there are two distinct approaches to audits - process and system. The methods are the same, just the 'scope' is different - you can audit a process and you can audit a system of processes. One is much easier than the other, however, the system audit can, by using a 'process approach', be used to inform management where the interaction between processes is not working as planned. Often the 'results' of one process are seen in the implementation of another. Poor design process results 'appears' in manufacturing etc.

If you just audited 'design' or 'manufacturing' it may not be apparent, but a system audit might make things a little easier to see.

 

[trainerbob]

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.
How do you audit a system? One process at a time!!!!!!

 

[AndyN]

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.
How do you audit a system? One process at a time!!!!!!

I hope not! If the internal audits are based 'taking into consideration the status and importance of the process(es)' then one process at a time will not cut it...

If we read status and importance as 'risk' and 'impact', it should be obvious that, for example, when launching a new product into the market, many processes are involved. Or, if a new supplier is being introduced there's more than just purchasing or receiving (uniquely) involved...

It's up to effective audit program management to determine what processes or systems make up the scope of any given audit - which is something not taught in any auditor course!

 

[HillaryLynn]

It has been a while since this topic has been brought up. We have decided to split up some of our internal audits into System and Process audits. Can someone please provide a SIMPLE definition of the difference between the two?

 

[Jen Kirley]

It has been a while since this topic has been brought up. We have decided to split up some of our internal audits into System and Process audits. Can someone please provide a SIMPLE definition of the difference between the two?

Welcome to the Cove!

Let me see if I can make this simple.

A process is a set of activities that are done in a methodical fashion to accomplish objectives.

A system is a group of processes that work together toward common goals such as customer satisfaction.

Standards are typically laid out in a manner in which processes serve each other as inputs and outputs; put them together effectively and one should have a system.

I audit a process, but when doing so I keep a perspective of the system: that is, I try to see both the forest and the tress.

Does that help?

 

[AndyN]

It has been a while since this topic has been brought up. We have decided to split up some of our internal audits into System and Process audits. Can someone please provide a SIMPLE definition of the difference between the two?

A system audit is often done by an external auditor - CB auditor at a Certification 'stage 2' or by an SQA, in a pre-award supplier evaluation.

Internal auditors often do system audits, early in the implementation of an ISO standard, to prepare for Certification. Process audits can be the principle focus of internal audits, or SQA auditors, or even by a CB auditor, at a surveillance.

It's more a case of selecting which is going to give the right results for the situation under consideration. Whatever that is, Jennifer gave a good response.