Do you include Financial Dept and/or Accounting Dept. to the qual. managment system?

[Craig H.]

Now that finance has given me approval, I have 2 cents to add to the thread:

I had a conversation with our outside auditor on this very topic last visit. I had been told that we would "toss out" ISO 9000 (and possibly yours truly, I assume) if we had to reveal any financial information, so I questioned the auditor in-depth.

He said that the actual numbers aren't important, but we had to show that there is some mechanism (system, process) to provide the needed resources. I assume he will look at management review, see where a need has been identified, then see if/how it was provided.

Also, the discussion in this thread has stated several times that we are in business to make money, etc., etc. Can't ISO 9000 be applicable to non-profit organizations, as well?

Well, my 2 cents has run out.

 

[Randy]

Sure, 9K can be used for any type of organization, even a church if that's what one's desire is. When referencing profit maybe a better general word should be "ultimate goal" or "basic objective". Make your own "final outcome" word or phrase up.

 

[Mike S.]

Randy said:

Tom Peters says that to stimulate any group or team you need to have a catalyst or wierdo.

I'm a fan of Tom Peters. If he's right about the "weirdo" part some of the teams I've seen should have been so stimulated as to require massive doses of tranqualizers just to remain seated!

I'll take you at your word about just wanting to be a catalyst and that you take the same tone with clients as you do in your posts here. I'm usually reluctant to give advice when it isn't asked for but what the heck... With the world being what it is today, I strongly suggest you not tell any client group containing one or more females "Let's not be getting our collective t--s in the wringer here".

 

[db]

The big picture?

"The Big Picture" often eludes us.

I see your point, energy (as a good consultant, I have to always say that). But my point was that even just a lowly QM with or without a GED, you still need to know how your actions impact the customer (external or internal). Your "big picture" may not be much bigger than that.

On a QMS level, the folks in the billing department also need to know how their activities impact their customer. Because incorrect billing is a rather significant issue, then the QMS really needs to cover that.

Do YOU need to know about the billing part? Probably not, that is not your area. Likewise billing doesn't need to know your stuff.

And remember, the customer is always right (unless you're a consultant, they you are always right)

 

[Rockanna]

Finance Audited

How many of you who have gone through registration had their finance department audited?



Our ISO audits have never included Finance/Accounting.
Our cost of quality information comes from Finance as well as other valuable performance measures; but the Finance department has never been audited.

 

[s_warin]

Do you registered to 94 or 00?

Dear j lean,

Do you registered to 94 or 00?

If 94, you can exclude it. If 00, what will you deal with it?

 

[km214]

K

undefined

To Energy,
I am a bit confused by your postings regarding the inclusion of finance into the QMS. As ISO addresses "resources" and resources no matter what type require that funds be allocated....see the flow here...?
all departments are within the scope of the QMS as Quality is a part of everyone's job...
I have read a lot of great info from you and will continue to read on..
We all must learn to "Hear" what we may disagree with but to disregard what we think we already know is nonproductive ...With the conducive nature of this forum and the brilliant minds sharing their experiences and wisdom...this should be embraced!!!


K

 

[Tanahy]

I don't know why we need to think much and much of it, my personal opinion, we implement the QMS aiming QUALITY>>>>>>>Customer satisfaction>>>>> so whatever may have an impact on your aim "direct or indirect" should be included...
I am completely agreeing with including financial department, HR and even IT department,
best of luck

 

[vanputten]

Only For Money?

I hope there are companies out there that are in business for more than just money. Can we include being in business for the greater good of stakeholders / society? Only in it for money hmmm, that seems to be tunnel vision and myopic.

By the way, consider what process to include if your scope is a Management System and not a Quality Managment System? For those public companies embracing Sarbanes -Oxley, one can quickly conclude that we should manage all fucntions with a process approach. If managing a business as a system is beneficial, then why would any process be left out? If we step back and look at this as a Business Management System, then all should be included. If you have to deal with Sarbanes,then you have even more of a business reason to include finance and accounting processes.

Regards, Dirk

 

[Valeri]

We have included financial and accounting processes within our system. SOX has produced numerous requirements for our division as well as the corporate office. As we are audited by corporate, it only made sense to include these processes within our system.