Fighting for Cooperation to Participate in the Development of our QMS

[EntryLevelQualityMgr]

Hello friends. I have introduced myself recently and as my username reflects, I am an entry level Quality Manager (I'm a RABQSA certified Quality Management Systems Provisional Auditor, the lead auditor course and exams I took on my own initiative during a lay-off). I'm sure my position and lack of experience could be the subject of a great separate thread, but for that, another time...

I've been using Elsmar Cove Forum to my advantage for some time now, as an unregister visitor; I thank you all for the wealth of good knowledge. Now, though, I must participate and I hope to get some feedback on the #1 problem that I regularly encounter, which I suppose must not be so uncommon an occurence, for which supposition I reach out for your feedback.

How can I get other members of my 'management team', in my case the owners of the company and a shop supervisor, to participate in the development and/or revision, regular review, and continual support of our quality system? Maybe it's a 'management buy-in' issue, but more directly to my scenario, a 'refusal to participate' issue. They expect that I alone will write and sustain the quality system, (ISO9001 style, by my design)... I implore them that this is not a realistic possibility, if the quality system is to be anything but cosmetic, a book on the shelf...yet nothing toward a positive response from my team members. They say, "You're 'quality'. That's your job." These words haunt me!

So, please offer some feedback. Should I be content with things as they are and keep 'pretending'/'playing' Quality Manager? Or is there a realistic possibility that I can get the participation and cooperation I need to make this a real, genuine, working quality system?

PLEASE HELP.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Fighting for cooperation

Hello friends. I have introduced myself recently and as my username reflects, I am an entry level Quality Manager (I'm a RABQSA certified Quality Management Systems Provisional Auditor, the lead auditor course and exams I took on my own initiative during a lay-off). I'm sure my position and lack of experience could be the subject of a great separate thread, but for that, another time...

I've been using Elsmar Cove Forum to my advantage for some time now, as an unregister visitor; I thank you all for the wealth of good knowledge. Now, though, I must participate and I hope to get some feedback on the #1 problem that I regularly encounter, which I suppose must not be so uncommon an occurence, for which supposition I reach out for your feedback.

How can I get other members of my 'management team', in my case the owners of the company and a shop supervisor, to participate in the development and/or revision, regular review, and continual support of our quality system? Maybe it's a 'management buy-in' issue, but more directly to my scenario, a 'refusal to participate' issue. They expect that I alone will write and sustain the quality system, (ISO9001 style, by my design)... I implore them that this is not a realistic possibility, if the quality system is to be anything but cosmetic, a book on the shelf...yet nothing toward a positive response from my team members. They say, "You're 'quality'. That's your job." These words haunt me!

So, please offer some feedback. Should I be content with things as they are and keep 'pretending'/'playing' Quality Manager? Or is there a realistic possibility that I can get the participation and cooperation I need to make this a real, genuine, working quality system?

PLEASE HELP.

Welcome. I can't offer much but commiseration; there are no magic pills or panaceas, I'm afraid. Two companies that I've worked for in the past 12 years or so no longer exist, mainly due to ownership that died of thirst after repeatedly being led to water. On the other hand, I also know of a company that has the worst management I've ever seen and has been in that condition since the 1950s, and is, as far as I can tell, thriving today.

A "real, genuine, working quality system" is a pretty rare animal, but they do exist. They exist because top management wants it that way, and in my experience, that's the only way that it will ever happen. If there's a bright side, there's value in the experience of working under the kind of pressures and challenges you're facing right now. You won't know this for sure until sometime in the future when the experience comes in handy, but that time will come.

 

[harry]

Re: Fighting for cooperation

Welcome to the Cove.

Congratulations! You've just been promoted to a level of in-competence No offense meant, it's just how Peter describes it - Peter Principle)

Getting people to do things is a big challenge for any new manager. Having the right training and preparation will of course help but without it, you can do it too. It may take a bit more time.

A current thread that is useful: Ways to encourage participation of other dept in preparing for the surveillance audit

A set of common advice for new managers: "8 Rules for getting things done through people - On the Management Side - Brief Article"

With regards to the reality of the market, Jim had given good advice in the previous post.

 

[somashekar]

Hello friends. I have introduced myself recently and as my username reflects, I am an entry level Quality Manager (I'm a RABQSA certified Quality Management Systems Provisional Auditor, the lead auditor course and exams I took on my own initiative during a lay-off). I'm sure my position and lack of experience could be the subject of a great separate thread, but for that, another time...

I've been using Elsmar Cove Forum to my advantage for some time now, as an unregister visitor; I thank you all for the wealth of good knowledge. Now, though, I must participate and I hope to get some feedback on the #1 problem that I regularly encounter, which I suppose must not be so uncommon an occurence, for which supposition I reach out for your feedback.

How can I get other members of my 'management team', in my case the owners of the company and a shop supervisor, to participate in the development and/or revision, regular review, and continual support of our quality system? Maybe it's a 'management buy-in' issue, but more directly to my scenario, a 'refusal to participate' issue. They expect that I alone will write and sustain the quality system, (ISO9001 style, by my design)... I implore them that this is not a realistic possibility, if the quality system is to be anything but cosmetic, a book on the shelf...yet nothing toward a positive response from my team members. They say, "You're 'quality'. That's your job." These words haunt me!

So, please offer some feedback. Should I be content with things as they are and keep 'pretending'/'playing' Quality Manager? Or is there a realistic possibility that I can get the participation and cooperation I need to make this a real, genuine, working quality system?

PLEASE HELP.

You have two things with you that keeps pulling you in different direction.
1. As mentioned you are entry level quality manager and that goes to say that experience is less to nil.
2. You are a trained new quality manager and that brings you with new and fresh ideas, that you feel are a must however not all others view your picture of things.
So if you quit and go elsewhere you may again find the same scene most probably.
People will never come around, and this is a fact from experience.
If you threaten to quit, certainly no one will care that much
You can continue to be the manager but the system has been entrusted to you. How will you nurture it without caring ?
Start slowly getting into the shoe of all others and without pinching, see their viewpoint and help in establishing some system links such that interactions begin to happen. To the extent of writing a system make some headway such that you provide direction and slowly make the others to own their documents. Be a calm trainer and be prepared to get into bad books of a few if it so be, all in the good for your QMS.
Be seen, be felt and be interactive.
All that you have to do is have patience, persevarence and bring about interactions between functions and smoothen any rough. You will slowly begin to see the results and your acceptance too. Good luck.
NOTE: Never expect perfection in things the way you see it. If you see a progressive step, say 'perfect for now' and push to move ahead. Rome and QMS can never be built in a day. Looking for your perfection in other's function can at best only get you heart aches ...

 

[Pancho]

A couple of practical suggestions:

1)
Whoever hired you must have an interest in getting a QMS. Try to rope him/her in first.

2)
Start a wiki. Wikis encourage collaboration. Some records are naturals for wikis, even if they aren't key parts of the QMS. For example, project to-do lists, directories, and current policies and procedures. Load up the key process descriptions and ask others to edit them. These may be enough for a critical mass so that folks start consulting the wiki and contributing to it.

Once you have an ally and an accessible place where everyone can see and quickly edit documents, you may suddenly see others join in.

Good luck!
Pancho

 

[Wes Bucey]

So far, all the replies are interesting and pertinent. I'd like to point out that the American Society for Quality (ASQ) has tackled this situation on a number of occasions over at least the past twenty-five years.

Most recently, ASQ has created a white paper discussing this idea of pitching the Case for Quality to upper management:
White Paper: The Economic Case for Quality® (PDF, 192 KB)

There are more interesting things on this topic available through ASQ

Believe it: Quality pays. In every type of organization: education, manufacturing, healthcare, and service.
How do we know that? In ASQ’s Quality Body of Knowledge (Q-BoK TM) we have accumulated case studies, articles, and statistics to prove quality makes a positive impact on the bottom line.
White Paper: The Economic Case for Quality® (PDF, 192 KB) Case Studies But it doesn’t happen overnight. Quality must be implemented systematically and strategically throughout an organization—from the top down. How do you get that commitment? With the help from ASQ’s Making the Case for Quality program.
NEW! The Economic Case for Quality® Network
This new ASQ network was founded as a way to convene professionals who wish to learn, exchange knowledge and promote best practices while advancing awareness and the use of quality as a management system.

We invite you to join the Economic Case for Quality® Network by registering (at no charge), and participating in this community of quality leaders.

As much as some of us have maligned top paid administrators at ASQ over the past few years, the fact remains the ASQ IS a repository for a lot of good information on the nuts and bolts of dealing with real world situations as a quality professional. Do not overlook this valuable source of information because of bias or prejudice against a few administrative practices highlighted by current and past ASQ members, many of whom have become very discouraged and disenchanted by what they see as a move toward abandonment of the rank and file quality professional by the top paid administrators of ASQ. The low level staffers and volunteers, however, continue to labor and provide good services and advice for all - members and nonmembers alike.

 

[EntryLevelQualityMgr]

Re: Fighting for cooperation

Wow. The Peter Principle is quite remarkable and I thank you for showing it to me. I shall not let this happen to me! Amazing how just having a weakness pointed out to you can urge you to overcome it, isn't it! I indeed HAVE gravitated very close to being incompetent, just in my despairing alone, which my posting of a hopeless sounding poll with no positive answers suggests.

 

[EntryLevelQualityMgr]

Somashekar - Great advice! I appreciate the supportive attitude...it lifts me up. Especially I will attempt to employ your suggestion to "help in establishing some system links such that interactions begin to happen". Brilliant! I'm a calm trainer....I'm a calm trainer....

 

[harry]

Wow. The Peter Principle is quite remarkable and I thank you for showing it to me. I shall not let this happen to me! Amazing how just having a weakness pointed out to you can urge you to overcome it, isn't it! I indeed HAVE gravitated very close to being incompetent, just in my despairing alone, which my posting of a hopeless sounding poll with no positive answers suggests.

Somashekar - Great advice! I appreciate the supportive attitude...it lifts me up. Especially I will attempt to employ your suggestion to "help in establishing some system links such that interactions begin to happen". Brilliant! I'm a calm trainer....I'm a calm trainer....

Often, all that one needs to have is just one thing - right attitude. You have it and I wish you all the best.

 

[JRKH]

The size of the company can have certain influences on these things as smaller companies (especially those that are actually run by the owners) are much more use to flying by the seat of their pants and don't like the sort of "regimentation" that they see a QMS imposing.
Yet they know they must have something because their customers demand it.
This is the situation I found myself in when I took my first QM job. Like you I had some training, and a bit of experience (not much) and was "winging it" myself.
The company was very similar to yours. They saw the benefit of things like "inspection" and such, but less so the benefits of quality training and continuous improvement etc...Basically they wanted me to put something together that would satisfy their customers but would not require a lot of change/particiaption on their part. This began in 1993 when I was hired. At that time there was no thought of "going for registration" it was simply - satisfy this customer....

It tell all this above so that you can see that I recognize much of me in your situation....
There are great benefits possible. One is that you are going to learn a lot obout careful handling of people. Dealing with situations as they come up and, what we use to term, "putting out fires". All the while you will need to be promoting good quality practices to whoever will listen and implimenting what you can where you can.

The very first thing you need to remember and maintain is you honesty and integrety. I know that you know this, but it bears repeating....The single most important asset of a quality professional is honesty. Honesty with your employer and with the suppliers and customers.

Explain that you will do what you can to build a QMS that is satisfactory and functional, but their support and cooperation is critical. They will likely pay you lip service so be prepared for this. Be gentle, but firm. The market will "explain" these things to tehm over time. (new customer requirements audits etc)
Then proceed to build the QMS, as much as possible around their systems etc. Point out the areas where there may be problems and try to get these fixed. If they do not cooperate, and there is no other way around it, you'll just have to let if become an issue at an audit....
Then - it will become a matter of either they cooperate and fix the problem or they loose business....

So - in short -Be honest and gentle - Take your time - Gain experience - Make friends and allies, even among those who are resistant to changes - Be helpful to all.
Build up where you can and prepare answers and solutions for those places where resisitance is heaviest because you can bet that they will be called to account eventually.

I hope some of this is helpful to you.

Peace
James