FMEA Severity Scale - Higher for Failure at Customer's or End-Customer's place?

[kedarg6500]

dear members

in which case severity will be more
1. if a product fails on customer line (in customer premises)
2. if a product fails at customer's customer (end customer)

 

[Jim Wynne]

in which case severity will be more
1. if a product fails on customer line (in customer premises)
2. if a product fails at customer's customer (end customer)

It depends on the nature of the product and how your customer views it. There are also different levels of severity--there's financial loss and there's injury to users, or both. I've been preaching for a long time that PFMEA in job shops should focus on processes and not end use. We should be able to assume that the customer, in designing the product, has taken those risks into account, and that if your product meets the specifications you've done your part. Your customer may see it differently.

 

[brahmaiah]

dear members

in which case severity will be more
1. if a product fails on customer line (in customer premises)
2. if a product fails at customer's customer (end customer)

Severity is more in No.2 .No 1 carries 1 point less.Refer attachment.
v.j.brahmaiah

 

[Jim Wynne]

Severity is more in No.2 .No 1 carries 1 point less.Refer attachment.
v.j.brahmaiah

You have a bad habit of making confident assertions that have no basis in evidence. Your attachment is from GM Powertrain, and we don't know anything about the OP's customer(s) and what their requirements might be.

 

[The Capt - 2011]

I didn't think that we could fit failure at customers plants into an FMEA, because FMEAs are used to identify potentail problems with in a defined process of manufacturing and to reassure the customer that we have a reaction plan to any issues that may come up in production.

Other systems take over from the point of when the product leaves the shipping dock.

Really think about it, how could you possibly indentify all the issues that could occur from shipping damage? or a traffic jam, (causing shipment to be late, or a union labor strike?)

 

[Jim Wynne]

I didn't think that we could fit failure at customers plants into an FMEA, because FMEAs are used to identify potentail problems with in a defined process of manufacturing and to reassure the customer that we have a reaction plan to any issues that may come up in production.

Other systems take over from the point of when the product leaves the shipping dock.

Although I don't necessarily agree with the AIAG point of view in this regard, the "guidelines" in the FMEA manual do indeed suggest that the potential effects of process failures should include those effects that occur in end use. Remember, these are effects of failure modes and not the potential failure modes themselves.

Really think about it, how could you possibly indentify all the issues that could occur from shipping damage? or a traffic jam, (causing shipment to be late, or a union labor strike?)

We can't, and I don't think anyone expects us to.

 

[Cornwap]

Hi,
You may not be supplying Ford, but for info their FMEA Handbook (Version 4.1) required all downstream customers to be considered including the next operation, the dealer and /or the end customer. I have attached some extracts so you can see the descriptions they use.
Best regards
Phil

 

[Bev D]

Also we must think about the true effect of each failure mode. There are many failure modes that may not be severe if they reach the customer but will still shutdown a production line at your customer. in these cases the severity at your customer is greater than at the customer...it all depends there are no blanket one size fits all answers...we must begin to use logic in our endeavors to improve quality and stop relying on cookie cutter forms...

 

[brahmaiah]

You have a bad habit of making confident assertions that have no basis in evidence. Your attachment is from GM Powertrain, and we don't know anything about the OP's customer(s) and what their requirements might be.

Failure at vehicle end user could be most serious.It can even cause punitive damages if it is viewed legally.I donot understand why you grugde giving more importance to end user complaints.
My confident asertion is due to insufficient information from the questioner and also due to my 40 years of toil in the industry.
V.J.Brahmaiah

 

[Jim Wynne]

Failure at vehicle end user could be most serious.

Could be. Not necessarily, though.

It can even cause punitive damages if it is viewed legally.

As could failures in the customer's plant, but there's no doubt that end-use failures are undesirable and perhaps more severe than failures earlier in the chain--no one is arguing that point.

I donot understand why you grugde giving more importance to end user complaints.

My point was (and is) that without more information, we can't make rational judgments on relative severity vis a vis the OP's question.

My confident asertion is due to insufficient information from the questioner and also due to my 40 years of toil in the industry.

When someone posts a question without providing sufficient information, the best thing to do is ask for more information.