ISO 29001/API Q1 and ISO 9001 Analysis - Conflicting Information

[neash83]

Hello,

I am trying to get my head around ISO29001 and API Q1, specifically the relevance they have to one another.

I work in an organisation that almost exclusively supplies to the oil and gas industry. At present we are only ISO9001 certified.

I'm finding conflicting information regarding ISO29001 and worse still, out of date information. I've only been able to get my hands on ISO29001:2003 so far, I'm aware there have been new editions released meaning its quite out of date now.

In the 2003 edition, it appears to me that it is just a supporting document to be used along ISO9001 to give a more robust system and that you don't actually get certified to ISO29001:2003 along with ISO9001. The articles I have read around ISO29001:2003 seem to support this theory (whether rightly or wrongly).

Now with the little information I have garnred from the newer edition of ISO29001 (I can't get my hands on a copy of it so far....) seem to indicate that it has taken prominence as a standard in its own right (or is at least heading that way)for the oil and gas industry (similar to AS9001 in the Aerospace industry). I can see on the LRQA and BSI website that they offer certification to ISO29001 now.

Now my query relates to how actually prominent ISO29001 is/will become? Is it going to go the way of AS9001 where it replace 9001 and become the indsutry norm or will we be exepected to have ISO9001 and ISO29001 certification in tandem (I appreciate that if you are compliant to ISO29001 then you're probably complying with ISO9001 or at least from what I read in the first edition you would be, but I just want complete clarity).

Basically should my organization be looking at ISO29001 compliance?

Also on top of all that, where does API Spec Q1 fit along side all of this? Is API Spec Q1 exactly the same ISO29001, only with the inclusion of annex A which mentions monogram licensing?

Regards

 

[Stijloor]

Re: ISO29001/API Q1 and ISO9001 Analysis

A Quick Bump!

Can someone help with this?

Thank you very much!!

Stijloor.

 

[PittsburghBrass]

There seems to be a lot of confusion in general with the relationship between API & ISO 29001. For what it's worth, here's my input:
The current revision of ISO 29001 is the 3rd edition, 6/1/10. The current revision of the API spec is the 8th edition, 6/15/08, but should include Addendum 1 which has an effective date of 12/1/10. These documents are readily available off the internet through Techstreet.com, for instance.
I would advise you to obtain the latest revs mentioned.
Essentially, the ANSI/API spec is identical to ISO 29001, with the exception of an Appendix added to the API document.
As far as certification goes, I have conflicting information vs. what you stated in your post. My company is ISO9001:2008 certified thru Lloyd's (LRQA) here in the US, and has been for many years. I brought up the topic of ISO29001 certification with them, (as we are anticipating more petroleum/petrochemical business) and I was told by more than one of their people that LRQA is not accredited to certify companies to the ISO 29001 standard. They could assess, (think gap analysis), but could not certify. Unless this has changed in about the last 6 weeks, I still beleive this to be true.
I am aware of but not familiar with the registrar 'BSI'. I am also not sure if you being in the UK as opposed to the US has anything to do with the conflicting info.
Anyway....my understanding is that the American Petroleum Institute (the API) is the sole authorized registrar to certify companies to the API/ISO 29001 specifications.
In practice.....should you retain API as your registrar after you implement your API-spec compliant program, they simultaneously audit you for compliance to ISO29001, as well as ISO9001. Therefore, from their marketing perspective, if you get certified to the API spec, they charge you nothing for the concurrent ISO29001 and ISO9001 certifications, as these are based upon the API spec. Indeed, the API makes big bucks from their monogramming licensing program.
Along these lines, I am currently considering changing my registrar to API to gain the petro. certifications, as those-type customers are increasingly expecting of their suppliers.
Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[neash83]

Thanks for the information.

The UK LRQA website offers certification to ISO29001, which was what peaked my interested.

BSI is the British Standards Institution, along with LRQA they are one of the more reputable bodies for certification in the UK (or at least in my experiences anyways). They also offer certification to ISO29001.

(I tried to provide a link to both the LRQA UK and BSI pages offering the ISO29001 certification, but as I'm a new member I can't at the moment, but a quick google search will yield the same results)

Having seen both companies offer the certification was what made me curious about it and wonder how prominent it is actually going to become in the Oil and Gas industry.

What I would be interested to know is, from a customer perspective in the Oil and Gas industry, about important this is going to become? At present we haven't had any customers mention this as a requirement to do business or as part of supplier approval. ISO9001 seemingly always being enough, but is ISO29001 going to gain momentum and become a defacto requirement to do business in the industry?

I appreciate that API Spec Q1 has been around for sometime and in terms of wording (asides from the annex you mentioned), ISO29001 is exactly the same, but to me the impression it gives is that they are trying to give it more prominence and make it an industry norm spec worldwide (similar to the Aerospace industry and AS9001 as mentioned in my OP). Just my opinion though, I don't have anything objective to back it up with, although I would be interested to know others peoples views on the matter?

Thanks

 

[PittsburghBrass]

Thanks for clearing up the US vs. UK positions. It appears to me and some others that API holds all the cards on this here. My company, for one, is taking a 'wait and see' approach on the merits of obtaining the API certification. We have completed some costing analysis and such, and have reviewed the specs is great detail, but in our experience the major US Gulf Coast petroleum customers, i.e. Shell, Connoco-Phillips, and others are being non-committal about the current or near-future requirements for suppliers to be API-certified. With this in mind, internally, we are going to revisit the issue again later this year.
A side note: LRQA's US website promotes their ability to certify to ISO29001, when in fact, that isn't entirely the case, as I mentioned in my previous post. A further conversation I had with an LRQA US guy had him acknowledging that, as well as stating to me that client demand has not yet prompted them to be accredited for certifying to the 29001 standard.

 

[neash83]

Thanks, that makes sense.

I think I'll get in touch with LRQA and BSI from this side of the pond and see what their thoughts on the matter are, although I imagine based on what you've said, it won't be too dissimilar to the feeling in your post.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

I brought up the topic of ISO29001 certification with them, (as we are anticipating more petroleum/petrochemical business) and I was told by more than one of their people that LRQA is not accredited to certify companies to the ISO 29001 standard. They could assess, (think gap analysis), but could not certify.

A further conversation I had with an LRQA US guy had him acknowledging that, as well as stating to me that client demand has not yet prompted them to be accredited for certifying to the 29001 standard.

LRQA can not be accredited for ISO/TS 29001; neither can BSi, API QR nor DNV. Simply because there is NO ACCREDITATION SCHEME for that standard for the time being.

Certification Bodies can issue non-accredited certificates to such standard, and a few CB's have done so. DNV, the CB I work for, has issued NUMEROUS certificates to the ISO/TS 29001 standard, so has API Quality Registrar.

For many years, organizations seeking certification against the OHSAS 18001 Standard had to be content with non-accredited certificates, simply because no Accreditation Body had developed an accreditation program for that standard, and the excuse justification was that OHSAS was not an international standard, developed by consensus. The Accreditation Bodies have since changed their line of thought and have developed accreditation schemes for standards that are regional in coverage or of narrow application.

As far as I know there is no movement, at this time, in order to develop an accreditation program (@ ANAB) for ISO/TS 29001, but, that might change in the future.

 

[Charles Osenbaugh]

I'm having a hard time finding cross-ref's between ISO 9001:2008 and API Q1. I've done a rough gap thru API Q1 clause 4, roughly the equivalent of ISO 9001's clauses 4 thru 6.
If anyone has anything similar for API clause 5 (ISO clause 7), please share.

Thanks

 

[austinlerwick123]

Thanks for the information I am also searching about that "ISO 29001/API Q1 and ISO 9001 Analysis - Conflicting Information"

IHI-EC