Re: Training for ISO 9K2K

[Wicker Basket]

Hello everyone at the cove,

I'm a University student (on a work placement) trying to implement ISO 9K2K at a small branch (8 people) of a much larger engineering company in the UK. At present I have spent ages divising a quality manual, and basically all of the procedures, processes and WI's that this company should be using. The trouble is no-one in this company has any experience with auditing, and I'm the only one with any experience of of ISO 9K2K (yes I too have a copy of the standard covered in scribbles) and I've got to advise the company what to do next. Now I can't really tell everyone in the office what they need to do as I'm the low down office junior) so should I advise my immeadiate boss that he needs to go on some sort of ISO 9K2K training programme, or should we get some one in, or should I try and come up with some sort of plan that they can follow.

I believe that all the documentation we need is ready, I'm just not sure the people are ready for the documentation.

Any suggestions would be great

Wicker

P.S I'm quite tempted to hand them the quality manual and run!

 

[RoxaneB]

Hi, Wicker, and welcome to the Cove!

Why not present a list of suggestions along with estimated costs and pros/cons to each?

• One or two people sent away on Auditor training
• Can someone from the larger branch do the audit?
• Consultant...some smaller companies find this method to work best for them.
• Send one person and arrange to share auditing services with another company (you help them, they help you)

At this point, with no coffee in my system and late bed time last night, that's what I can think of...I'm sure others will offer more advice.

As for the documentation, I'm a little concerned. If you documented what they actually do, why should the documentation overwhelm them? And if the documentation reflects current practices that they already know, training is simple...grandfather them in (or, as Mike S said in an attempt to be politically correct...grandparent them in).

Sorry for the brevity of my response...dashing off to an early meeting!

 

[db]

Yes, Welcome to the Cove! Good first post!


My recommendation is that your immediate boss and the the head boss both attend some formal training. This is the best way I know of giving them a feel for what you are going through, and what the organization needs to go through. Then, there is less possiblity that you being a junior will be a drawback. Once they finish the class, then the three of you together develop the plan. They have ownership, and you have apparent value.

Also, a side note: Using a formal course, or an outside expert is usually better than trying it yourself. I cannot tell you how many times I've told a top manager the same thing that the Management Rep has told them, but because they heard it from an "expert", not just an internal person, they accepted it.

 

[Randy Stewart]

I agree with the external training but I would NOT suggest the Executive Overview. What I have experienced is that the bosses go to a half day overview course and come back thinking that it is a simple matter to implement a compliant system. I know their time is valuable and in short supply I just don't think that they get a real feel for the depth of what needs to happen.

There are a number of members who are trainers at the cove and should be able to supply you with contacts and courses. Also those of you who disagree with my assessment of the "overview" please speak up. We don't want Wicker Basket to end up in the Waste Basket.

 

[db]

I agree with the external training but I would NOT suggest the Executive Overview.

Typically, what I suggest is internal auditor training. They get a better picture of how the system should work, and also how to take a critical look at they QMS (EMS). One other thing is they will understand the audit process better and that too should benefit. Of course the only internal auditor course worth taking is the one taught by me. :thedeal:

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Hello Wicker Basket, and welcome to the Cove
I think you've been given very sound advice already, so I have little to add. Good first post, keep them coming.

/Claes

 

[Wicker Basket]

(to everyone) Thank you all for the help.

You've given me some good things to think about, my overall aim is to make the transition as easy as possible, and as ISO 9K2K is meant to be a 'Management-led' standard, which is one major difficulty as our Top men are always in other countries securing contracts. I think they had the aim that I would come up with a plan, that they could give to the rest of the staff to follow. I'm trying to convince them that they have to be seen to be leading the staff into a quality system and not the other way round.

I'm also having a little difficulty with the role of the Quality Manager. I've read that in a small company like ours, the role should be assigned to the Mangaging Director, However this makes QMS review meetings and Auidts difficult to organsise without the Managing Director talking to himself. At the moment the Quality Manual talks as if they were to different people.

Any way cheers for all the points, I shall endeavor to include them in the management briefing I have tomorrow

Wicker

 

[howste]

Typically, what I suggest is internal auditor training. They get a better picture of how the system should work, and also how to take a critical look at they QMS (EMS). One other thing is they will understand the audit process better and that too should benefit. Of course the only internal auditor course worth taking is the one taught by me. :thedeal:

I agree with db except for one point. The class should be one that I teach. Either internal auditor or lead auditor training would be my choice for those who are leading the certification effort. Eventually, everyone in the company will need training to some level, but not everyone needs training in the whole standard. Even the executive overview can be very useful if the right points are stressed. Like the fact that they are responsible for everything.

 

[db]

I agree with db except for one point. The class should be one that I teach.

Well I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Randy Stewart]

Even the executive overview can be very useful if the right points are stressed. Like the fact that they are responsible for everything.

For some reason that little point doesn't seem to come through in most classes! I was getting ready to challenge you on the Exec Overview being useful, the first part of the statement almost made me spew coffee all over my monitor. When I got over the shock I was able to finish reading the whole sentence! I'm okay now, but thanks for the wake-up