Registrar wants to perform special audit

[Sidney Vianna]

I am getting the feeling that this "special audit" isn't really due to lack of evidence,

This is not a guessing game. Did the audit plan/agenda call for an audit of the process in question? Did the audit report make any mention to such process? The audit process matrix? Did the auditor keep a roster of the people interviewed? Does it show anyone from such process?

If the evidence does not show the process was covered the CB is covering their azz, very likely for having failed that before and being caught by an IATF audit.

 

[Slickpick]

This is not a guessing game. Did the audit plan/agenda call for an audit of the process in question? Did the audit report make any mention to such process? The audit process matrix? Did the auditor keep a roster of the people interviewed? Does it show anyone from such process?

If the evidence does not show the process was covered the CB is covering their azz, very likely for having failed that before and being caught by an IATF audit.

Audit plan / agenda for this year's audit did not call for this process to be audited. The final report referenced this process and marked it as "not audited in this audit"

 

[Jen Kirley]

We received additional feedback - the registrar is saying (without directly saying...) that they dropped the ball - they will perform the audit at no cost to our organization.

In my opinion - I am getting the feeling that this "special audit" isn't really due to lack of evidence, but because someone at the registrar did not like the fact we did not get any NC's... The registrar claims that this process must be audited to "ensure all processes are covered within the audit cycle" - however, this particular process was already audited during the first year of the cycle (which we received a minor NC)...

There is an expectation that NCs get followed up on with a subsequent audit. If that did not happen this might be the result. It's the registrar's mistake so certainly they should not charge the client. If I am right, depending on what it is a remote audit might be possible. If it was a process finding, then a short visit is likely needed. Or, maybe a process walk through with a cell phone streaming while on MS Teams/etc?

Whatever it is, the registrar needs to tell you what the exact issue is, now would be good.

 

[Slickpick]

There is an expectation that NCs get followed up on with a subsequent audit. If that did not happen this might be the result. It's the registrar's mistake so certainly they should not charge the client. If I am right, depending on what it is a remote audit might be possible. If it was a process finding, then a short visit is likely needed. Or, maybe a process walk through with a cell phone streaming while on MS Teams/etc?

I don't believe this would be the case - the minor was received in 2022 and was followed up on during the 2023 surveillance audit

 

[Jen Kirley]

I don't believe this would be the case - the minor was received in 2022 and was followed up on during the 2023 surveillance audit

There might also be an internal procedure at the registrar that a process receiving NC previously should not be skipped during the next surveillance. I can't be certain from here.

 

[Mike S.]

I'm always wary of any CB surveillance audit that concludes with zero N/Cs - it either suggests lack of depth by the auditor, or lack of time planning. Zero N/Cs also add no value to the audit process.

Hogwash. Some companies work their tails off trying to be compliant, and I've had more than one audit where the auditor did a thorough job and had no NC's.

 

[outdoorsNW]

No NCs may be due to sampling.

I was once helping provide information to an auditor who picked a starting place in the middle of a range of numbered records and then was proceeding in numeric order. The auditor did a 4 record sample and found everything complied. If he did a 5 record sample, the 5th one was likely going to be an NC. Such is the nature of sampling.

I also encountered an incoming inspection miss where by chance the sample missed a problem affecting about half the parts. When the customer asked why we did not catch the problem at incoming, someone estimated there was a 3- 5% chance of this happening. Such is the nature of sampling.

I have worked a one company that, while things were not perfect, was good enough that the common 3-5 record sample by auditors, applied to multiple types of records, was unlikely find the small percentage with problems and we had several zero finding audits.

 

[Randy]

Doing a 3rd party audit bears very little difference to visiting a buffet restaurant (Golden Corral), you go in and take a sample of everything offered that fall into the categories of your taste (plan) at that time. Because of time constraints (available duration) and other factors you selectively choose what to eat, and how much to eat, more of this, less of that and so on including some "tasties". Now, and this is very hard for auditors to comprehend (but not diners) we don't go to the buffet to find stuff that's bad, we go in to find and eat good stuff being surprised when we locate a "nasty" (NC......no it's not what we went in for). In the end we're going to base our opinion (findings) of the whole food line and Buffet on the limited "samples" we ate...........There's no way in H*ll we can taste every single item offered and available and it's the same during an audit, everything is based on what's in the sample and there are and will always be "nasties" and other good stuff outside of that sample, and nothing will ever change that and absolutely nothing can be done to recreate the exact same sample.........It ain't gonna happen!!

If the CB auditor didn't "sample" the right stuff he's gotta visit the buffet again, but only when the buffet is open for business and not any time he chooses to suit his needs unless somewhere it's posted "Open and cooking on demand" (That's where the contract comes in, if the contact doesn't stipulate revisits and the causes of their needs, regardless of the internal CB's rules it has to go by, the stove and lights can stay off and the doors locked).........My personal feeling.