Supplier Performance and Supplier Rating Process - AS9100 Requirements

[Kasturi.P.Shetty]

Hiiii,

We are implementing AS9100RevC, i am bit confusing about supplier performance. After registration at the initial stage we are evaluating suppliers and perodic evaluation(Once in two years audit). Is it necessary that we have to rate the supplier based on Quality and delivery.

 

[qusys]

Re: Supplier Performance

The parameters included in a supplier evaluation are related to quality, costs and methods.
The criteria shall be communicated to the supplier as well as the method and related score used by the organization.
The scope is to create partnership with the supplier in order to have mutual beneficial relationship.Hope this helps

 

[dsanabria]

Re: Supplier Performance

The parameters included in a supplier evaluation are related to quality, costs and methods.
:

Couldn't find those parameters in AS9100 or AS9101 - please elaborate

 

[dsanabria]

Hiiii,

We are implementing AS9100RevC, i am bit confusing about supplier performance. After registration at the initial stage we are evaluating suppliers and perodic evaluation(Once in two years audit). Is it necessary that we have to rate the supplier based on Quality and delivery.

There are no requirement in the standards of how you need to rate suppliers the supplier based on Quality and delivery. Sometimes the customer will dictate where and who you are going to use (Pros and Cons - another thread) without a concern to quality and cost.

Quote
"NOTE One factor that can be used during supplier selection and evaluation is supplier quality data from objective and reliable external sources, as evaluated by the organization (e.g., information from accredited quality management system or process certification bodies, organization approvals from government authorities). Use of such data would be only one component of an organization's supplier control process and the organization remains responsible for verifying that purchased product meets specified purchase requirements."


In evaluating a suppliers performance you can use the certificate (ISO, TS, NADCAP....etc...) as one of the many methods available to determine how you are going to evaluate suppliers.

Most companies on a yearly basis monitor their suppliers performance by verifying that they do have the updated certificate (aerospace use OASIS - send a PM if you want to know how to use that section of OASIS) and NCR against suppliers as a beginning formula ... so Certificate - no NCR = Acceptable suppliers for 1 year.

 

[Jeorg]

Hiiii,

We are implementing AS9100RevC, i am bit confusing about supplier performance. After registration at the initial stage we are evaluating suppliers and perodic evaluation(Once in two years audit). Is it necessary that we have to rate the supplier based on Quality and delivery.

This is my pet peve.

Please don't do an annual review of performance of suppliers. Its ridiculous. If you have a bad supplier you need to act NOW.

The standard requires that you have a method for the evaluation and selection of suppliers based on YOUR company's criteria. In general most companies select suppliers based on price, capability, capacity , etc. Sometimes location. The Aerospace stanrad requires that you do this for the part purchase. In other words you can't just issue a purchase order to ABC Compnay because they make other parts for you. You have to justify why ABC is the best supplier for the part you are trying to purchase.

Usually a form with you criteria which you fill out and then make a decision based on the data. ISO certification won't get you a good part.

The standard futher says that you must continue to evaluate a supplier one they are being used. As I said, the annual review is ridiculous. I always put in place a real time tracking system. The system is filled out by receiving for on-time. Quality goes to the data base and notes any quality issues in addition to issuing any CA. The database can be set up to record points and "red line" the supplier. BUT, it is purchasings responsibility to monitor suppliers and it is best if done real time. When a supplier misbehaves action should be taken immediately.

This is all that is required and any good business minded person would want to do this.
It's just common sense.

Please don't do a self survey. Its also useless.

The INTENT is that you choose the appropriate supplier based on criteria that will make sure the customer gets good parts, on-time and that you are aware and take action when a supplier shows signs of endangering your business and you customers product.

Good purchasing people are doing all the correct things. The Quality department just needas them to record it better and stop forcing old paradigms on purchasing.

Purchasing only needs to summarize the ongoing real time evaluation for management review.

The point is....its all about making money. Not putting in useless hoops to jump through to fake out the auditor.

 

[dsanabria]

This is my pet peve.

Please don't do an annual review of performance of suppliers. Its ridiculous. If you have a bad supplier you need to act NOW.

The standard requires that you have a method for the evaluation and selection of suppliers based on YOUR company's criteria. In general most companies select suppliers based on price, capability, capacity , etc. Sometimes location. The Aerospace stanrad requires that you do this for the part purchase. In other words you can't just issue a purchase order to ABC Compnay because they make other parts for you. You have to justify why ABC is the best supplier for the part you are trying to purchase.

Usually a form with you criteria which you fill out and then make a decision based on the data. ISO certification won't get you a good part.

The standard futher says that you must continue to evaluate a supplier one they are being used. As I said, the annual review is ridiculous. I always put in place a real time tracking system. The system is filled out by receiving for on-time. Quality goes to the data base and notes any quality issues in addition to issuing any CA. The database can be set up to record points and "red line" the supplier. BUT, it is purchasings responsibility to monitor suppliers and it is best if done real time. When a supplier misbehaves action should be taken immediately.

This is all that is required and any good business minded person would want to do this.
It's just common sense.

Please don't do a self survey. Its also useless.

The INTENT is that you choose the appropriate supplier based on criteria that will make sure the customer gets good parts, on-time and that you are aware and take action when a supplier shows signs of endangering your business and you customers product.

Good purchasing people are doing all the correct things. The Quality department just needas them to record it better and stop forcing old paradigms on purchasing.

Purchasing only needs to summarize the ongoing real time evaluation for management review.

The point is....its all about making money. Not putting in useless hoops to jump through to fake out the auditor.

Not sure where you are getting the annual review - standards requires a periodic review of suppliers (no time limit).

Please remember that if they choose to use the standard(s) (AS, TS NADCAP..) as a method of determining compliance then they must also realize that the company is audited annually and thus have a system in place that is in compliance.

However, if they have a formula of.... standard plus ncr - then they must also react to it.

Thus, they could conceivable have a certified suppliers that provides a part once a year without an NCR a still be part of the process and by the same token ... they could have a supplier that provides ncr with the part every single time and be part of the process because they are customer approved.

 

[Jeorg]

Not sure where you are getting the annual review - standards requires a periodic review of suppliers (no time limit).

Please remember that if they choose to use the standard(s) (AS, TS NADCAP..) as a method of determining compliance then they must also realize that the company is audited annually and thus have a system in place that is in compliance.

However, if they have a formula of.... standard plus ncr - then they must also react to it.

Thus, they could conceivable have a certified suppliers that provides a part once a year without an NCR a still be part of the process and by the same token ... they could have a supplier that provides ncr with the part every single time and be part of the process because they are customer approved.

It doesn't matter whether it is one year or ten years. If you fail to act when a problem occurs you have missed the point of the standard.

I prefer the real time evaluation.

As an auditor myself, I do not think it is wise to assume that a certified company is going to send me good parts. Auditors look at systems not at parts. The certification does NOT apply to product.

I think as Quality people we get caught up in believing something works because everyone else is doing it.

I base my opinion on years of auditing, consulting AND being a purchasing manager.

Again, the intent is to get Quality parts on time.

Purchasing people call surveys "liar sheets" when not around quality.

I had a company I was auditing that did it the "quality way". I kept warning them that they missed the point of evaluation. At the same time I was auditing one of their suppliers. The supplier was so bad I knew they didn't have long to exist. It was a endless cycle of Major NCs. IF the customer had montiored the supplier real time they would have seen the numbers showed they were crashing. The supplier ended up just closing their doors without notice and with the customers tooling locked inside. It was a 3 million dollar mistake for the customer who had to get lawyers, temprary tooling, etc. etc.

After which I said, "Now, do you undertsand why I tried to tell you you need to monitor your suppliers real time."

Lesson learned the hard way!

 

[dsanabria]

It doesn't matter whether it is one year or ten years. If you fail to act when a problem occurs you have missed the point of the standard.

I prefer the real time evaluation.

As an auditor myself, I do not think it is wise to assume that a certified company is going to send me good parts. Auditors look at systems not at parts. The certification does NOT apply to product.

I think as Quality people we get caught up in believing something works because everyone else is doing it.

I base my opinion on years of auditing, consulting AND being a purchasing manager.

Again, the intent is to get Quality parts on time.

Purchasing people call surveys "liar sheets" when not around quality.

I had a company I was auditing that did it the "quality way". I kept warning them that they missed the point of evaluation. At the same time I was auditing one of their suppliers. The supplier was so bad I knew they didn't have long to exist. It was a endless cycle of Major NCs. IF the customer had montiored the supplier real time they would have seen the numbers showed they were crashing. The supplier ended up just closing their doors without notice and with the customers tooling locked inside. It was a 3 million dollar mistake for the customer who had to get lawyers, temprary tooling, etc. etc.

After which I said, "Now, do you undertsand why I tried to tell you you need to monitor your suppliers real time."

Lesson learned the hard way!

YEAP - agree with your thought - sorry words get in the way of communication ...

 

[dv8shane]

Hiiii,

We are implementing AS9100RevC, i am bit confusing about supplier performance. After registration at the initial stage we are evaluating suppliers and perodic evaluation(Once in two years audit). Is it necessary that we have to rate the supplier based on Quality and delivery.

I agree with Jeorg real time monitoring will save you in the end.
I monitor all suppliers that provide critical services for each and every purchase, an example of how I do it is here https://www.avamet.ca/um-coversheet.pdf. I had so many things go wrong with this supplier when I disapproved them, I posted their records to my website.

 

[qusys]

Re: Supplier Performance

Couldn't find those parameters in AS9100 or AS9101 - please elaborate

In the standard you will not find this as written in a stone, clearly.
Each organization shall have criteria to select, evaluate and re-evaluate supplier. What I have written are commonly recognized as basic criteria, to be customized for each organization.
Remember that the standards do not go into the particular