Supplier PPAP Requirements - TS 16949 Clause 7.3.6.3

[qusys]

Our organization is applying PPAP . ISO TS wants that this clause shall be applied to organization's Supplier too.
WHat should the Purchasing organization do when they request PPAP to suppliers?
Should they store? Should they do a procedure for this?
We also have a Corporate Purchasing departement belonging to motherhouse certified only ISO 9001 that makes procurement vs Corporate suppliers ( equipment , raw material), used by us . that are a manufacturing site certified ISO TS.
Can you help me to explain this to Purchasing according to your experiences in this sense?

 

[Sturmkind]

Re: Supplier PPAP- Clause ISO TS 7.3.6.3

Most Tier I folks that I have worked with have the requirement for a 'Level 3 PPAP submission, unless waived....[by the using plant or designee]..." written right into the terms of the Purchase Order.

Most good suppliers and bulk resin/steel/chemical suppliers don't have an issue with this.

The PPAP submission, once approved, we scan and store on a shared company server.

Purchasing should be willing to suppor this because PPAP has been an AIAG requirement since Moby Dick was a minnow and it is good protection for them as well as a potentially valuable reference for you especially when trouble-shooting. This requirement can also serve as a good sales tool to obtain new business as evidence that Purchasing is TS compliant in that regard.

 

[qusys]

Re: Supplier PPAP- Clause ISO TS 7.3.6.3

Most Tier I folks that I have worked with have the requirement for a 'Level 3 PPAP submission, unless waived....[by the using plant or designee]..." written right into the terms of the Purchase Order.

Most good suppliers and bulk resin/steel/chemical suppliers don't have an issue with this.

Undestood, but Purchasing department made following question:
Once obtained PPAP from some regional suppliers that are suppliers for us certified ISO TS as a manufacturing site, what should we do then?
Storage and show as a records? They asked for a process to follow and if they should we do a procedure for internal use for buyers and procurement responsibles?
What should we do if the supplier is not certified ISO TS and so it is not compelled to do PPAP? Should we impose a customer requirement of purs versus them?

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Supplier PPAP- Clause ISO TS 7.3.6.3

Undestood, but Purchasing department made following question:
Once obtained PPAP from some regional suppliers that are suppliers for us certified ISO TS as a manufacturing site, what should we do then?
Storage and show as a records? They asked for a process to follow and if they should we do a procedure for internal use for buyers and procurement responsibles?
What should we do if the supplier is not certified ISO TS and so it is not compelled to do PPAP? Should we impose a customer requirement of purs versus them?

First, there is no specific requirement for anyone to do PPAP in TS16949. I don't have my copy in front of me, but I'm pretty sure it just says that you're to use the part approval process required by your customer(s).

As for controlling your purchasing process with regard to PPAP and purchased part approval in general, you should invoke control to the extent that's necessary to assure that the process is performed uniformly. This would likely include keeping records, including supplier submissions.

 

[Stijloor]

Re: Supplier PPAP- Clause ISO TS 7.3.6.3

First, there is no specific requirement for anyone to do PPAP in TS16949. I don't have my copy in front of me, but I'm pretty sure it just says that you're to use the part approval process required by your customer(s).

As for controlling your purchasing process with regard to PPAP and purchased part approval in general, you should invoke control to the extent that's necessary to assure that the process is performed uniformly. This would likely include keeping records, including supplier submissions.

From ISO/TS 16949:

7.3.6.3 Product approval process

The organization shall conform to a product and manufacturing process approval procedure recognized by the customer.

NOTE Product approval should be subsequent to the verification of the manufacturing process.

This product and manufacturing process approval procedure shall also be applied to suppliers.

Stijloor.

 

[qusys]

Re: Supplier PPAP- Clause ISO TS 7.3.6.3

From ISO/TS 16949:
7.3.6.3 Product approval process

The organization shall conform to a product and manufacturing process approval procedure recognized by the customer.

NOTE Product approval should be subsequent to the verification of the manufacturing process.

This product and manufacturing process approval procedure shall also be applied to suppliers


Stijloor.

Thks to all.
In fact this is the issue. We apply PPAP vs our Customer but we still miss this vs our suppliers.

 

[qusys]

Re: Supplier PPAP- Clause ISO TS 7.3.6.3

If a remote function of Purchasing ( Corporate level of motherhouse not certified on ISO TS ) does not apply PPAP to the Suppliers, which in part are also suppliers for manufacturing site, certified vs ISO TS, could this issue be a non conformity vs 4.1 clause because it is not demonstrable the effectiveness of QMS processes to support manufacturing site?
What about???

 

[Chennaiite]

Re: Supplier PPAP- Clause ISO TS 7.3.6.3

If a remote function of Purchasing ( Corporate level of motherhouse not certified on ISO TS ) does not apply PPAP to the Suppliers, which in part are also suppliers for manufacturing site, certified vs ISO TS, could this issue be a non conformity vs 4.1 clause because it is not demonstrable the effectiveness of QMS processes to support manufacturing site?
What about???

I'm sure, your Organization has some ways and means to approve Products from the Supplier for Mass Production. This is good enough for ISO/TS, provided none of your Customers requires you to follow AIAG PPAP for their sub-suppliers(your Suppliers). As a matter of fact, some Customers do insist AIAG PPAP for their sub-suppliers and for those apparently you shall go by the Customer specific requirement. For the rest of your Suppliers, it is at your discretion whether or not you will follow the same.

Further, if your Purchasing center is identified as remote location for the ISO/TS certified Site, they are bound to implement relevant ISO/TS requirements even if they are not independently Certified to the standard.

Just to re-emphasis what is cited in previous other posts also, Product approval process cited in ISO/TS is not necessarily AIAG PPAP.

 

[Howard Atkins]

Just to reinforce the comments from my friend Chennaiite.

The standard says

7.3.6.3 Product approval process
The organization shall conform to a product and manufacturing process approval procedure recognized by the customer.
NOTE Product approval should be subsequent to the verification of the manufacturing process.
This product and manufacturing process approval procedure shall also be applied to suppliers.

You must apply a "product and manufacturing process approval procedure recognized by the customer. " In the case of the Big 3 this is PPAP with their specific additions but this can be any other method required by the customer who may never have seen the AIAG PPAP book.

Remote sites are required to conform to all requirements of ISO/TS 16949 that apply to their processes and this is why they are audited. The remote sites are certified as remote sites for the function and this as an appendix to the certificate of the manufacturing site.
The requirement for supplier product and manufacturing process approval is part of the development process and as such the project manager (or what ever you call him) should be passing these requirements to the purchasing function.

 

[Chennaiite]

Just to reinforce the comments from my friend Chennaiite.

Thanks Atkins, You made my day.