Interesting Discussion Where Does Marketing/ Advertisement of Products fit in to ISO 9001?

[Sidney Vianna]

I would think so. I would focus on your quality related processes. That is just my opinion. Others here may see it differently.

There is no one size fits all answer. It depends on the context of the organization and the extent of what this marketing function does.
However, as I mentioned 8.2.2b clearly requires an organization to assess its ability to fulfill claims. Who makes claims about an organization, for the most part? Marketing does.

 

[Marc]

There is no one size fits all answer.

Of course. I gave my short diatribe about McDonalds in attempt to show that marketing can come in at any time and change things, too. And while McDonalds realized that kids were the target of their product (Ray Kroc identified it for the McDonalds brothers), and thus their advertising/marketing came to... Happy meals. And Ronald McDonald. Of interest is one of their main 'measureables' - The 'irritation' factor, I think he called it. The more their advertising got kids to irritate their parents (just like my kid did years ago) to get parents to take them to McDonalds, the better. Personally I hate McDonalds and I can't remember the last time I ate at one. Not just because they have crappy food in my opinion, mainly because I remember my daughter's begging, "...then I won't eat anything..." and all the crap McDonalds caused me for several years because she wanted a toy and a play time place. Couldn't even get her to eat the food when we got there. Toy + playground.

I have no idea what ISO 9001 would say about that, but they sure can sell burgers even though they often piss off parents royally.

Yes, in the world of widget manufacturing ability to fulfill claims is typically important. But then again... Usually marketing claims come from the design group. They say their widget can do XXXX and their widget can do <whatever> (technical specs) which marketing takes and makes claims about. How close they are to the truth is another matter.

Food for thought: telephone 5G claims. As over blown and gimmicky as 'block chain'.

Just some thoughts.

 

[qualprod]

So I understand "communication with customers" and that aspect is defined and clear in the RFQs, contract reviews and agreements to meet customer requests and specifications...(which in that case would fall under the Sales Department of communication and meeting requirements..)

But what about Advertisement and Marketing? i.e. attending Trade Shows and Managing social media accounts and company websites to advertise SBA (Small Business Accreditation) Certifications and Charity work that we are involved in to display good community services and be recognized by the government (our customers) for such deeds..

I'm struggling with trying to find a place for this area in the business flow chart.
and as I try to create a Process for "Marketing" i don't know where to map it...

Marketing, to me, is pretty much a "Pre-Sales" action.. Marketing brings customers in... but what I am understanding is that ISO is monitoring the actual business flow and customer satisfaction, continuous improvement of quality work, product and services...

So where does Marketing fit.. I'm still confused...

Even if ISO doesn´t exactly address marketing, nor prohibits to include it.
In fact is a good idea to include it.
It can be included before the sales process or maybe in parallel, also it can be tasked with interesting kpis, e.g. # of attended shows, #number of potential customers captured, monthly advertising, etc.
Sure, it can be a process , I added this process in one organization.
It can help in benchmarking the company.
It is convenient to have it into the system, this way is audited under ISO and people in that process will feel the compromise
to carry out their activities.
My two cents.

 

[Marc]

How do they come up with numbers for #number of potential customers captured? That type of determination has to be, I would think, at best, a guess.
And # of attended shows - How do you determine the value of each show? By total attendance at each show? Or monthly advertising - The more the better?

I know that a company can come up with KPI numbers for marketing, and sure - it is a process. I'm just not convinced it's related to quality of their product, and I think many KPIs would be difficult to ascertain. But - I'm certainly totally ignorant of advertising and marketing, so I'll just stick with my amusement of a company as successful as McDonalds using a metric like Ray Kroc's irritation factor as a positive...

 

[John Broomfield]

Marketing determines (upcoming) customer needs for design of services and products. Advertising explains to prospective customers how the organization's services and products could fulfill their needs - better than the competition perhaps. Marketing may also own the process for obtaining and analyzing customer feedback.

And yet, many "ISO systems" omit these processes.

Imposing procedures on our colleagues with the hope that they will properly (ISO-wise) establish these processes is not the way I recommend we develop our organizations to fulfill the requirements of ISO 9001.

Instead determine what processes already exist. Work with the process owner asking auditor-style questions (that is to show a genuine and forensic interest in the answers) to determine the objectives of their process, who is involved, what and from whom are the inputs, who does what to add value to these inputs and what is the output and to whom does it go. Capture the results of this interview in a deployment (swimlane) flowchart so all involved in the process can see who does what so the process fulfills its objectives. In doing this we discover and link to software, forms and notes that act as data collection devices, instructions or memory joggers. This key is to reflect the process as it actually works.

Much better than creating works of fiction.

Once we have the procedures accurately documented to the extent necessary for the effective planning, resourcing and control of the process we can compare each flowcharted procedure with ISO 9001 and check off the clauses which are relevant to these three important processes.

 

[hogheavenfarm]

could possibly be related to "regulatory compliance" as well, ie herbal supplements advertised as "cures" (FDA issues), or other claims in violation of standards or regulations.

 

[Tagin]

We have a Marketing department that attends trade shows and advertises for our company and vendors to educate customers of our services (for the government)They manage our website, social media, and vendor relations...

I have a clear understanding of the ISO requirements and so far have created all the necessary buckets (I think).
However, our Marketing department doesn't really fit in to our over all business "goal"/ turtle diagram.

To me, marketing is primarily about 4.2: Interested Parties. Marketing is trying to figure out who are the potential interested parties (4.2a), and what it takes (4.2b) to pique, maintain, and promote them from prospects to customers, and/or to maintain/grow existing customers.

Procedurally, marketing touches on other aspects, as have been noted - KPIs, making claims Also, use of outside providers (web providers/designers, printers, social media, etc.) might require some controls (e.g., account security on social media and web hosting to prevent hacked accounts and reputation damage, etc.)

 

[Ninja]

I have trouble viewing marketing (market surveying) and advertising (raising interest) as processes. Easy to make the case that they are...but is it worth the time to do so? I think not.

I would (did) simply mention in the Sales process that the process may or may not include supplementary actions such as marketing, advertising, trade shows or similar...and that all of these are part of the sales process prior to quoting. 10,000 feet level, not details...literally a single sentence in the document...this gives marketing, advertising and sales all the freedom they want (and they want a lot).

As for false claims and overpromises...that should be managing people with people, not managing with documents.
If you want a measurable for this, it will be a subset in the complaint log.

 

[Marc]

I want to briefly say that for me this discussion is quite interesting. I appreciate everyone's input.

 

[BeaBea]

Marc,
Ya! I saw that Netflix documentary.. kind of sad actually..

Thank you for your thoughts!