Do I need to approve my Registrar and include them in the Approved Supplier List?

[TrishDish]

I know this thread is getting old and grey but I have a question about approved suppliers and darn if I can find a thread listing with anything close to my question.
My question is, should your ISO 9001/AS9100 registrar be among your approved suppliers? I hear that some auditors say yes but I've never had to deal with this before.
Thank you in advance for guidance on this one.

 

[NikkiQSM]

Re: Approved Supplier list?

I know this thread is getting old and grey but I have a question about approved suppliers and darn if I can find a thread listing with anything close to my question.
My question is, should your ISO 9001/AS9100 registrar be among your approved suppliers? I hear that some auditors say yes but I've never had to deal with this before.
Thank you in advance for guidance on this one.

Suppliers on your AVL are only those that directly affect the quality of your product, meaning:

suppliers of materials you need,
providers of the packaging of your product,
and even calibration services for the equipment you use to test the product, (to ensure it meets customer requirements)...

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Approved Supplier list?

Suppliers on your AVL are only those that directly affect the quality of your product

The actual requirement reads

The organization shall evaluate and select suppliers based on their ability to supply product in accordance with the organization's requirements

Technically, a CB supply a product to the registrant; product, as we all know can be a service, such as an audit, resulting, when deserved, in a certificate.

Let's remember that the quality of the audits performed by CB's has an impact on the organization's quality performance. Sometimes the impact is positive, sometimes negative. Let's also remember that if a CB's accreditation gets suspended or revoked, that will affect the registrant's ability to ship parts to their customers who mandate an AS9100 certificate from their suppliers.

Technically speaking, yes the CB is a supplier of services that should be formally approved, monitored and re-evaluated. Unfortunately, most registrants don't have a good criteria for registrar selection, focusing, many times, on price only.

Luckily we have the Cove and the hundreds of horror stories and cases of "auditors gone wild" to exemplify that in the ISO 9001/AS9100 Registration process, like the rest of the business world, you get what you pay for; and sometimes you get much less.

 

[NikkiQSM]

Re: Approved Supplier list?

The actual requirement reads Technically, a CB supply a product to the registrant; product, as we all know can be a service, such as an audit, resulting, when deserved, in a certificate.

Understood... I argued this point actually with our registrar, but his response actually made sense to me. I would want to evaluate the supplier of my packaging to ensure it would keep our product safe. I would want to evaluate the service provider of our calibration, so that I know the calibrations are being done correctly.

I suppose, in sense, it's not an actual requirement of ISO 9001:2008, but it makes our company feel safer

 

[QChaywire]

Re: Approved Supplier list?

Well stated. It would be clearer if the spec (AS9100) stated it as you did. I would also suggest that your registrar belongs in your "register" ("to ensure it (you) meet customer requirements").

 

[Big Jim]

Re: Approved Supplier list?

Suppliers on your AVL are only those that directly affect the quality of your product, meaning:

suppliers of materials you need,
providers of the packaging of your product,
and even calibration services for the equipment you use to test the product, (to ensure it meets customer requirements)...

I don't find that liberty in the standard.

"The organization shall evaluate and select suppliers on their ability to supply product in accordance with the organization's requirements. Criteria for selection, evaluation and re-evaluation shall be established. Records of the results of evaluations and any necessary actions arising from the evaluation shall be maintained (see 4.2.4)."

I see nothing about an AVL.

I see nothing about suppliers that directly affect the quality of your product.

The paragraph above the one quoted above does say things about extent of control can vary according to how it impacts subsequent product realization or final product, but nothing about directly affecting final product.

Although not specifically mentioned, the flavor of intent concerning directly affected not being enough may be found in the note at the end of 6.2.1 where it deals with competency: "Conformity to product requirements can be affected directly or indirectly by personnel performing any task within the quality management system".

Since 7.4.1 does not specify either directly or indirectly, I believe that both apply.

 

[ssz102]

Re: Approved Supplier list?

my comments:
the supplier list help you to select vendor name when you will place an order
thought you had maintained ralated supplier audit results and record, if you have a summary doesn't be better during show the people who is want to see these approvaled supplier？

 

[Paul Simpson]

Re: Approved Supplier list?

<snip> Technically, a CB supply a product to the registrant; product, as we all know can be a service, such as an audit, resulting, when deserved, in a certificate. </snip>

While I'm all for a rigorous process for organisations selecting their CB. Having them on your ASL/AVL is a bit of a stretch for me. I don't believe the intent of the standard covers conformity assessment bodies in any way.

Btw that doesn't mean you shouldn't select a CB that gives a rigorous service that adds value to your QMS activities.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Approved Supplier list?

Having them on your ASL/AVL is a bit of a stretch for me. I don't believe the intent of the standard covers conformity assessment bodies in any way.

That's why I started my previous comment with the word "technically". I made a case how a CB, as a supplier, could affect the registrant.

From a risk management perspective, having a CB approved as a supplier, or not, in the AVL gets close to irrelevant, in my opinion. Any CB auditor that would issue a nonconformity for the fact that the organization did not have the CB in the ASL is either playing a silly "gotcha" game, does not understand the concept of bigger fish to fry or is in the very early stages of his/her maturity journey as an auditor.

 

[QChaywire]

Re: Requirements for an Approved Supplier List? No new suppliers in years

Years ago we started with an "Approved Spplier List" that was included all vendors, everyone we had written a check to. Our auditors complained that the list was too long. We cut it back to only include suppliers that directly affected the finished product. This included heat treating, plating, and customer approved suppliers. It did not include outside machining services because we verified all that they did. Auditor liked the shorter list. We missed calibration and added them. We decided that if the supplier ended up on an AS9102 FAIR, it required approval. If not on the FAIR, then not on the list. Customer auditor liked this, Registrar auditor did not like this. Now we are going back to where we started, 15 years of audits ago.

So... Your registrar needs to be evaluated.