When to Close a Corrective Action Report?

I am having a problem. Our company has always had a problem with our Corrective Action system. They just have not taken it seriously. Because of this we were rejected for our TS stage I. We have made great strides since then, but I feel that we are still struggling at this point. Here is my dilema. Our Managers feel that we can close CAR's when we have identified the root cause and come up with a plan for closure. I say that we must have objective evidence that this plan has worked. Who is right?

Re: When to Close?

Effective implementatioon is when the issue is closed. Untill that point your customer is at risk for receiving parts with unacceptable condition identified.

Unacceptable condition- kids shirts scatterd on floor
Corrective action- told kids to pick up shirts with in this next minuit OR ELSE!

as any parrent can tell you C/A is not closed

Re: When to Close?

andygr said:

Effective implementatioon is when the issue is closed. Untill that point your customer is at risk for receiving parts with unacceptable condition identified.

Unacceptable condition- kids shirts scatterd on floor
Corrective action- told kids to pick up shirts with in this next minuit OR ELSE!

as any parrent can tell you C/A is not closed

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It was in my house

But you're right--it ain't over 'til it's over.

Re: When to Close?

Jim thats because you implemented follow up to effectivly close the C/A.
I to was able to obtain the same results only when there was follow up.

My wife ruined my attempt at the ultimate C/A on kids.
We sold and moved from our house the week after our youngest headed off to colage. She told them where we moved to!. I was content to just go visit them!

But I do get revenge by spoiling the oldest one's kid's. I see a drum set in Santa's sleigh this year. Do not think I can hear it 2 states away!

Re: When to Close?

andygr said:

Effective implementatioon is when the issue is closed. Untill that point your customer is at risk for receiving parts with unacceptable condition identified.

Unacceptable condition- kids shirts scatterd on floor
Corrective action- told kids to pick up shirts with in this next minuit OR ELSE!

as any parrent can tell you C/A is not closed

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No, it probably is not closable, not even effective. Just because you have one interim, or immediate action item to accomplish does not mean that you have gotten to the root cause and solved it. My kids might have their clothes picked up tonite before I get home from work, but you can bet your paycheck that within 24 to 48 hours, there will be clothes on the floor again. At my house, I figure that this corrective action will be able to be closed about the time my youngest turns 23 or so and they are all through college and living in their own homes I even have a plan to accomplish that moving out. I'm selling my house and moving into an RV. (root cause of problem was discovered to be that in some sort of week moment I was overcome with the mistaken ideal that having children would be such a cool addition to our family. Kind of like seeing those cute puppies in the pet store. Eventually they grow up.

So, the long winded answer to your problem is that you can close individual action items as soon as you have implemented them and found them effective and satisfactory, but the CAR cannot be closed until you have 1) found the root cause, 2) made a plan to eliminate recurrence, 3) satisfactorily and effectively implemented the entire action plan.

Re: When to Close?

Thanks to my kid's Grandparents, I forsee a set of drums in our future this Christmas. THANK YOU TO ALL YOU GRANDPARENTS. LOL

Re: When to Close?

SteelMaiden said:

So, the long winded answer to your problem is that you can close individual action items as soon as you have implemented them and found them effective and satisfactory, but the CAR cannot be closed until you have 1) found the root cause, 2) made a plan to eliminate recurrence, 3) satisfactorily and effectively implemented the entire action plan.

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I would add a 4th step, which is the need for a subsequent verification that indeed the problem is no longer occurring.

I have seen far too often organizations rushing into "closing" CAR's. I don't understand why. Sometimes you have to be especially patient when dealing with supplier CAR's because it might require you to wait for a future shipment of the same P/N to verify a correction. And, sometimes, it might take several months for another shipment to happen.

I think the OP has it right. CA systems are extremely critical to the health of an organization and there is NO reason to short circuit the closure of CAR's.

Re: When to Close?

How do you know that you have really eliminate the cause of a non-conformance without acutal data on the effect of the action?

You don't know if you really elimianted the cause of the nonconformance until there is evidence of effectiveness after implementation.

You are correct. Your managers are not.

Regards,

Dirk

Re: When to Close?

Sidney Vianna said:

I would add a 4th step, which is the need for a subsequent verification that indeed the problem is no longer occurring.

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I make verification the option of the process owner (me).
When I do require verification I consider the CAR closed upon receiving evidence of the action being implemented.
But I leave the verification of the CAR open and add a "verify by" date in the database.

Re: When to Close?

Sidney Vianna said:

I would add a 4th step, which is the need for a subsequent verification that indeed the problem is no longer occurring.

Click to expand...

Absolutely, I just combined two into one.

SteelMaiden said:

3) satisfactorily and effectively implemented the entire action plan.

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You cannot make any kind of judgement of whether or not the problem is no longer occurring (satisfactory, effective) without verification. This is one of those things that you say tuh-mah-toe and I say toe-mae-toe. But, it is a good point to reinforce.