Document Control and Distribution - How to save paper?

[energy]

A rock and a hard place

Allie said:

I love the idea of all this being stored electronically. Many moons ago I worked for a company in a QA tech position. All the results were entered on the computer. The only problem we had was when the server went down. The plant ran 24/7 with or without the server and we had to do testing every 20 minutes. That is alot of data to just kick around until the server was up. How can you still have access to forms/documents you need if you experience technical problems? I would be sooo happy if someone could give me a solution to this because I want to move to an electronic system. I am sure an auditor would want to know too.

Personally, important data such as test results, shouldn't be trusted to electronics, working properly or not. Does everybody have access to a computer? If so, enter it, print it and store it. If you are confident/comfortable with your back up systems, trash the paper the next day. Who uses the info? Have them print it and maintain a hardcopy folder as records for a pre-determined time. This electronic paperless system is not a cure-all for all situations. Acquire an old file cabinet and use it. There's plenty of room, especially for records of results. Electronics for records? Scary, but not impossible. You have to know your system and the back-ups available. Off site, damage proof storage and so on. JMHO

 

[Allie]

I was more worried about not being able to access the blank forms/documents if the server was down. It's not a big deal to hang onto a hard copy of records like you say.
I just don't want to leave the employees with no access to the blank forms if they need them. I could have a master hard copy of all forms, but that defeats the purpose of a paperless system. Any suggestions?

 

[Craig H.]

Allie:

It sounds like you will need some type of paper available in case the server bombs. What we do with pretty much all of our forms is have a controlled copy of each printed on yellow paper and placed in 8 1/2" x 14" binders. These binders are kept near selected copiers. We have 3 of these binders on site - you may need more or less.

Then, we put out the word that bad things will happen to anyone caught using a yellow copy to fill out!

I can't remember who, but I shamelessly borrowed this system from someone. It's simple, and it works. Hope it helps

 

[energy]

master log

Craig H. said:

Allie:

It sounds like you will need some type of paper available in case the server bombs. What we do with pretty much all of our forms is have a controlled copy of each printed on yellow paper and placed in 8 1/2" x 14" binders. These binders are kept near selected copiers. We have 3 of these binders on site - you may need more or less.

Craig/Allie,

Call me an oldtimer, cuz I am , but I have a Master Log Book with all documents/procedures (originals) with authorizing signatures in my office. You can distinguish them from copies because the originals are in color, particularly our header logo. When we went paperless, I never trusted the idea of a completely paperless system for documents. Too many horror stories about servers crashing and losing good stuff. I do not trust that the IT person will remember to keep the backups as prescribed. He's only human. Print them. Store them. If you really want to get Anal about it, fire proof protect them.JMHO

 

[Todd_w]

All,
Our servers are brand new and the doc. control system is backed up twice per day. The system has an automatic power backup generator as well. Worst case, a server bombs, the data can be re-installed on one of the other servers within a couple of hours. It more or less goes to a risk/benefit analysis. I’ll take the risk and the benefits. I hates paper (sorry old timer).
Currently our filled in forms (records) and instrument generated data (records) are retained for a short period of time. I would like to see the forms go to portable electronic notebooks (PDA’s perhaps) and the instrument data electronically recorded. We’ll probably be there in a couple more years. My opinion is that electronics are getting more reliable, more powerful and less expensive. It’s too tempting.

Todd
- walk in balance -

 

[Karen-Dawn]

documentation and links

Okay guys I just read all that you have had to say and unfortunately I have not seen the info I am looking for.

We use Word and Excel but our problem is that for a single process we have a minimum of three Word documents and sometimes an Excel spreadsheet. The docs provide the specifications, instructions, checksheets and calculators. We have a hard time maintaining the links. i.e. the spec in one doc changes which would trigger a change in the operating doc check sheets, another in the inspection requirement doc and perhaps the excel calculator. I hope you get the gist of it.

How do you link individual line data, protect the document and yet still allow operators to enter info where required. Read only doesn't work because they need to enter data and besides hasn't anyone else ever encountering someone saving a read only file to a location where they have write access and making changes?

Any help would be appreciated as we are meeting weekly and trying to find a solution.

Karen-Dawn

 

[energy]

Re: documentation and links

Karen-Dawn said:

Okay guys I just read all that you have had to say and unfortunately I have not seen the info I am looking for.

How do you link individual line data, protect the document and yet still allow operators to enter info where required. Read only doesn't work because they need to enter data and besides hasn't anyone else ever encountering someone saving a read only file to a location where they have write access and making changes?

Any help would be appreciated as we are meeting weekly and trying to find a solution.

Karen-Dawn

Karen-Dawn,

Just might be that you cannot go paperless. Have you considered that? It's a great way to go, but, has it limitations. IMHO, nobody here can tell you how to do it unless they sit down at your desk and see what it is you want to do. I would venture that you have to give more people access to make changes. In that case, why protect it? The Boogey man? As for linking individual line line data, good luck. You are asking for something that this thread does doesn't address. This is about taking traditional documents and eliminating hardcopies by using hyperlinks. Sorry you haven't seen the information you're looking for. We try. Try starting a new thread where the electonic geniuses can apply their mettle. Believe me, they're here. Graeme?

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Re: documentation and links

Hullo Karen, and welcome to the Cove

Karen-Dawn said:
---X---
How do you link individual line data, protect the document and yet still allow operators to enter info where required. Read only doesn't work because they need to enter data and besides hasn't anyone else ever encountering someone saving a read only file to a location where they have write access and making changes?

Any help would be appreciated as we are meeting weekly and trying to find a solution.

Karen-Dawn

Good questions. I agree with energy (Well it happens ). Let's start a new thread based on them. A quick comment would be that it is tricky to mix procedures and records, but it can be done.

/Claes

 

[M Greenaway]

Paperless systems can create headaches when we try to think in terms of tradional document control of hard copy documents, but the thought process is very similar.

You can protect certain areas of documents created in Excel by just protecting the relevant fields. I am not sure how to do such a selective protection in Word. As for copying the protected document by a user to their own drives where they can make changes - yes this can happen, and could probably be done with any electronic system. The only way to avoid this is to instill the discipline of using the 'controlled' documents at the appropriate address on the system, and requesting any changes through the proper channels. This can be monitored through internal audit - but bear in mind that these documents are not bank notes, and people are probably not that interested in circumventing the system that they go to such extremes.

Also I dont think traditional hard copy documents are any more secure. I could scan them, run them through OCR software, make my changes and produce a print even with signatures on.

Personally I prefer MS Access for any data capture.

 

[Randy Stewart]

Determine Control Level

I'm using a similar system K-D, with 1 addition. I put our procedures & Flow Charts in .PDF format (Acrobat Writer). It also has a link tool which will send the person to the form necessary for the job. For example; the calibration tech pulls tools in for verification, he pulls up the flow or procedure follows for which tool s/he is doing and clicks on the appropriate box or record # and they are sent to the excel sheet to be used. They also have the option to print the form for manual use or input data (i.e. gage R&R) for electronic storage. The format of the form is what is under doc control not the data entered. We also have data in Access format set up the same way - control the "Report" format. Acrobat is inexpensive ($150) and can be used in a number of ways. I find it easy to use and control of the document is more flexible than the straight word or excel file. One other issue we have found, compatibility between upgrades in MS Office can be a problem. I have 2 Access data bases right now in Office 95 format, due to the changes in Access they can not be upgraded at all. The macros that we used are not compatible with 98 and above so we have 2 systems that are not upgradable until we delete the old and start a new data base. Lesson: Be careful how much customizing you do to the MS programs, it may come back to haunt you. Mr. Gates didn't make all that money by giving away free upgrades!!!!