Effectiveness of training? How to Measure Training Effectiveness

[Polly Pure Bread]

You're mixing training content with training effectiveness.

You may have the best training materials and the best instructors, but if the employee is not competent after the training has been completed, the training is not effective.

Stijloor.

Your training is not appropriate therefore not effective. A good trainer considers different types of trainees and objectives vary.

 

[AndyN]

So we are to assume, based on your statement that unless it is seen it is not so?

By your premiss the Egyptians were not competent in large scale building projects using stone.

The Romans weren't competent at roadbuilding

Alexander was not competent in the art of war

And 56 men in Philadelphia were not competent in in the writing of important documents

We didn't see any of the above, but we do have evidence of it

You don't have to see someone actually doing something to determine whether or not they were competent in doing so.

I have to disagree with the Honorable Member from Arkansas!

We didn't see what process they failed. Sure, the result looks good, but how did the Egyptions do that? Did anyone see they followed the process, as defined - or did they round up a bunch of slaves and have them do it for them, including the design?

The definition is demonstration of..... I understand that the management of the organization has to see it demonstrated, not the auditor, but I'm still going to sample it, to test if their determination is as good as they claimed......and in my experience it often isn't (because they fabricated the record :mg

 

[AndyN]

Your training is not appropriate therefore not effective. A good trainer considers different types of trainees and objectives vary.

Aha, but now you're not in the real world. Many excellent trainers (here at the Cove - not merely good) will tell you they are often engaged by clients to run training sessions and the client won't pay for the training to be modified to have different objectives or content to suit the attendees........

It's a one size fits all scenario and if some 'students don't get it', they maybe shouldn't have been there in the training......

 

[Polly Pure Bread]

Aha, but now you're not in the real world. Many excellent trainers (here at the Cove - not merely good) will tell you they are often engaged by clients to run training sessions and the client won't pay for the training to be modified to have different objectives or content to suit the attendees........

It's a one size fits all scenario and if some 'students don't get it', they maybe shouldn't have been there in the training......

But I guess they consider different audience or level. A lot of people say that the best way (some even claim it’s the only way) to measure effectiveness is to quantify. Training effectiveness is the sum of training content, execution, relevance, etc. How will you arrived at conclusion whether training is effective or ineffective (whole) without the parts?

 

[Polly Pure Bread]

Many excellent trainers (here at the Cove - not merely good) will tell you they are often engaged by clients to run training sessions and the client won't pay for the training to be modified to have different objectives or content to suit the attendees........

Can you lecture Chinese trainees using their language? If you can’t speak Chinese, you can’t surely lecture. with this, you consider your audience.

 

[Stijloor]

But I guess they consider different audience or level. A lot of people say that the best way (some even claim it’s the only way) to measure effectiveness is to quantify. Training effectiveness is the sum of training content, execution, relevance, etc. How will you arrived at conclusion whether training is effective or ineffective (whole) without the parts?

You're mixing up training process (training content, execution, relevance) and training results. Remember that the expected outcome is a competent employee. It's the outcome that counts! I have been in the training business since 1969, and what my clients really care about is that the employees can perform what's expected of them. How we get there is of less importance.

Stijloor.

 

[Randy]

I have to disagree with the Honorable Member from Arkansas!

We didn't see what process they failed. Sure, the result looks good, but how did the Egyptions do that? Did anyone see they followed the process, as defined - or did they round up a bunch of slaves and have them do it for them, including the design?

The definition is demonstration of..... I understand that the management of the organization has to see it demonstrated, not the auditor, but I'm still going to sample it, to test if their determination is as good as they claimed......and in my experience it often isn't (because they fabricated the record :mg

Sometimes the process of training to learning to competence may require failure and may require time.

What we have is a slight disconnect and are under the old "apples and oranges" thing here. Training and competence are not the same. One can be competent at something without training and one can be trained without ever being competent...Oil & water (which can be mixed but there has to be a catalyst that allows it)

 

[AndyN]

Can you lecture Chinese trainees using their language? If you can’t speak Chinese, you can’t surely lecture. with this, you consider your audience.

Oh, indeed you can! In the early days of ISO implementation many, very good European based trainers were the only source of Lead Auditor training - I guarantee none of them spoke Chinese!! They all used interpreters - sure the class took longer, but it was just as effective and some of the materials weren't used eiter!

 

[Jim Wynne]

Can you lecture Chinese trainees using their language? If you can’t speak Chinese, you can’t surely lecture. with this, you consider your audience.

No one is saying that the audience shouldn't be considered. What's your point?

 

[Polly Pure Bread]

You're mixing up training process (training content, execution, relevance) and training results. Remember that the expected outcome is a competent employee. It's the outcome that counts! I have been in the training business since 1969, and what my clients really care about is that the employees can perform what's expected of them. How we get there is of less importance.

Stijloor.

Training content is useless if you cannot deliver it the way it should be (probably due to language differences, level of trainees, etc). You cannot jump into conclusion easily that employee is competent or incompetent. You need to consider other factors. If you are a good trainer, be it. After you lectured smart employee you will probably say that the training is effective. On the other hand, after you lectured poor employee you will probably say that your training is infective. I don’t think so. You will stop there? Don’t stop there. Consider other factors…