IATF 16949 Calibration Laboratory Scope

[Mikey324]

True, but you can make your position VERY clear to the CB (they have a year to "straighten out" this auditor) and you have writ your intentions large: "Don't Mess With Me". You are, after all, the customer. The auditor is there to verify compliance, not be making stuff up. Apart from cross-fit gyms, I can't think of another place you pay to do all the work. Don't allow your IATF 16949 Certification to become that place...

I wish more people looked at it this way. You, as the organization being audited, are the customer. The auditor is an employee of your service supplier.

How would your customer handle a situation where you are not supplying the product or service they are paying for?

As I've said before, when a registrar is no longer providing me with a value added service, i find another one that will.

You don't have to be concerned with making an auditor happy, especially if they are wrong. You can let your registrar know you don't want that particular auditor back.

 

[jmsaunders21]

Hi, I am at a company going through IATF certification in March 2021. If we have an outside calibration service provider do all of our calibration. Does my company still need to produce a lab scope ???

 

[Johnnymo62]

Yes, if you have a lab, you need to document what you test or evaluate, list the equipment, methods and standards. Please see the definitions for laboratory and laboratory scope on page 12 of the IATF16949 standard.

 

[Jymmybob]

I'm going to hop in with another calibration/lab question.

We received a major for having a pin gauge without an ANAB cert. It came with a NIST cert and we note that it was checked with a calibrated micrometer to verify it was the correct size (we only have 1 size) prior to putting in service, but the auditor claimed since we didn't state the serial of the micrometer (we only have 1), all traceability is lost. Her justification was that the cert on the pins didn't matter since it didn't have a ANAB logo and the micrometer check doesn't count since we didn't put in the serial down.

I know the rules for outside calibration require the logo/scope/etc, but I've never had an auditor say that even purchased NIST traceable pin gauges and newly purchased test equipment have to come with a cert with an ANAB logo. A lot of our equipment is cheap off-the-shelf things like light meters that are already cheaper to re-buy as new NIST-certified equipment than calibrate old ones, but if we have to buy then send out for calibration on everything prior to first use it seems like a waste so I wanted to see what others have run into.

It makes sense if it had been overlooked in every prior audit but our new auditor had more than a few questionable/incorrect findings so I don't trust her judgement.

 

[Ashland78]

I think the auditor was correct. I have been in like situation. You must have traceability if you are IATF.

Yes, I agree light meters and pin gage are cheaper to buy new, but you have to prove it was acceptable when new, and used throughout the year (or interval). We thought this originally, like 4 years ago and had same issue. For pin gages as well, I hope you are measuring 3 increments on it as some go through the part. Or they use the other end of pin.

Always purchase with even simple NIST certification for the first cycle. I have had thermocouples, brand new be out of tolerance upon arrival. As well as scales/ balances, even rulers. Being IATF means you consider these things.

 

[dwperron]

I'm going to hop in with another calibration/lab question.

We received a major for having a pin gauge without an ANAB cert. It came with a NIST cert and we note that it was checked with a calibrated micrometer to verify it was the correct size (we only have 1 size) prior to putting in service, but the auditor claimed since we didn't state the serial of the micrometer (we only have 1), all traceability is lost. Her justification was that the cert on the pins didn't matter since it didn't have a ANAB logo and the micrometer check doesn't count since we didn't put in the serial down.

I know the rules for outside calibration require the logo/scope/etc, but I've never had an auditor say that even purchased NIST traceable pin gauges and newly purchased test equipment have to come with a cert with an ANAB logo. A lot of our equipment is cheap off-the-shelf things like light meters that are already cheaper to re-buy as new NIST-certified equipment than calibrate old ones, but if we have to buy then send out for calibration on everything prior to first use it seems like a waste so I wanted to see what others have run into.

It makes sense if it had been overlooked in every prior audit but our new auditor had more than a few questionable/incorrect findings so I don't trust her judgement.

If you were able to show traceability of the pin measurement through use of an accredited micrometer that should have been sufficient, but when an accredited tool (pin gauge) is required to make the measurement the onus is on you to provide clear, unbroken traceability. In your case that means that you have to provide evidence of which accredited tool was used to check the pin, without a record of the serial number of that tool you have no evidence. It's easier to just get an accredited calibration on your pin in this case.
As for your policy of buying tools and tossing them after the calibration "expires", replacing them with new calibrated tools, you might as well not even bother calibrating tools. When you tossed out the old tool, how did you know that is was not out of tolerance while it was being used for critical measurements? You must calibrate the tool a final time to determine if it was still in tolerance, not that the calibration date on the sticker hadn't expired. The sticker is only a snapshot in time that the tool, at that time, was in tolerance.

 

[Ashland78]

That is exactly what I was trying to say in my reply. How do organization's do not know this?

 

[dwperron]

That is exactly what I was trying to say in my reply. How do organization's do not know this?

Because it is so much easier and cheaper to pretend that the calibration sticker means it is in tolerance until the expiration date.