ISO 14001 in Transportation (Truck) - Small to Medium Transportation

[Randy]

My feelings and sentiments exactly Marc.

I can hear the arteries of the "Purists" out there splitting open right now.

During the audit I just can't answer questions for them directly. I can talk to them 'on the side' (like a sidebar in a trial). But - that said - with small companies I simply have them put me on their organizational chart as a part-time project manager. Then I can talk as well.

Yep.....been there and done that too

I think there are a whole bunch of folks that don't accept the standard as a guide or template for an EMS. As long as the basic requirements are met you can call the elements of your system what you want, and pretty much do with it as you wish.

A quick review of the RAB's EMS equivalent standards (of which I am guilty of submitting one) will show this.

Again..great job

 

[Marc]

My thanks for the help from folks (including you) in the forums here. It was invaluable to me.

 

[JodiB]

Oh it's not like I don't believe that a company can reach the point you describe. It's just that I don't see how there can be a system in place to manage something that is nonexistent. And then get a certification that says you have it. But it really doesn't do anything. Not because you don't want it to do anything, but because there isn't anything to do - as you describe.

If a company has to be certified, then what else can they do? But it still looks strange to me.

Sigh.

Yes, we had the same policy on our audits relating to consultants being there. They could be there but couldn't answer for the company. The company's rep had to know his own system well enough that he didn't need the consultant to tell him the answers. I recall a company who tried to use the "but our consultant is our EMS rep. We don't have a fulltime EMS rep. Here, look at our org chart" and it didn't fly as well as it did for you. It was fine if they wanted that to be the case, but they still needed fulltime employees to be able to respond. After all, who was going to know what to do when the rep was off somewhere else? So the consultant still couldn't answer the questions. I was just curious if other registrars had the same policy.

 

[Marc]

Lucinda said:

Oh it's not like I don't believe that a company can reach the point you describe. It's just that I don't see how there can be a system in place to manage something that is nonexistent. And then get a certification that says you have it. But it really doesn't do anything. Not because you don't want it to do anything, but because there isn't anything to do - as you describe.

If a company has to be certified, then what else can they do? But it still looks strange to me.

Sigh.

You have to look at it as a system to monitor for the future. It is open so that should something be identified it can and will be appropriately dealt with. There may be nothing to control now but that does not mean there never will be.

Yes, we had the same policy on our audits relating to consultants being there. They could be there but couldn't answer for the company. The company's rep had to know his own system well enough that he didn't need the consultant to tell him the answers. I recall a company who tried to use the "but our consultant is our EMS rep. We don't have a fulltime EMS rep. Here, look at our org chart" and it didn't fly as well as it did for you. It was fine if they wanted that to be the case, but they still needed fulltime employees to be able to respond. After all, who was going to know what to do when the rep was off somewhere else? So the consultant still couldn't answer the questions. I was just curious if other registrars had the same policy.

The problem is you state:

but they still needed fulltime employees to be able to respond.

I challange you to show me anywhere in any of the requirements where the words 'Full Time Employee' or anything near that is even used. You may come up with something like "Well, it's implied.." but that doesn't get it.

You may not like it because it doesn't fit your paradigm, but you can fulfill any requirement with part time personnel - even responding to corrective actions or whatever. I've held many contract jobs where I was responsible for FMEAs, PPAPs, was part of the design team, interfaced with customers and supliers, etc., etc. and I was definitely not fulltime.

After all, who was going to know what to do when the rep was off somewhere else?

Heck - people take vacations all the time. Who takes over for them? Does a full time management rep ever take a vacation? Yes? Who knows what to do when the full time management rep in your company takes a vacation? There are telephones, e-mail, pagers - hey - no one has to be 'out of touch' in today's world.

 

[Greg Maggard]

Here in the Lexington Ky. area Toyota Motor Manufacturing (TMMK) has the largest private responce team. They actually repond to all emercency issues as far as clean up for ISO14k. They would have information that you might be interested in 1-502-868-2000 ask for Enviromental department.
They are super efficent, all the checks and balances needed to develop or improve on a system.

 

[gpainter]

To reply to a comment by Marc. We do not use Statistical techniques and have had no problem with 2 different auditors. I think most auditors look at your definition of Statistical techniques rather than push it on you.

 

[Marc]

gpainter said:

To reply to a comment by Marc. We do not use Statistical techniques and have had no problem with 2 different auditors. I think most auditors look at your definition of Statistical techniques rather than push it on you.

I believe that's quite a bit more true today, but go back 5 years or more and it was less so. One thing I consistently see is evolution of what is acceptable and what isn't. Ten years ago auditors were expected to have direct work experience in the field they're auditing. Now days it's hard to find an auditor with work experience in the field at all.

I also see auditors accepting much more than they ever did. Having been in this game for over 10 years, audits any more aren't half as difficult as they were. There is a lot more that is acceptable today than ever before.

As far as one's definition of statistical techniques - I guess you could say writing numbers in a column is a statistical technique. My statement came from where no statistical techniques were identified at all unrelated to the definition of what a statistical technique is (such as a simple line chart). I haven't had an auditor define statistical techniques - only grouch when the company identified none.