MSAs are now required on every feature of the control plan - IATF 16949

[Marc]

These posts were moved from How many of you are Certified to IATF 16949 because the topic went far afield of the thread title.

 

[PruAngie]

Re: How many of you are Certified to IATF 16949

Agreed on the equipment. If it was a part specific requirement in the past then we were never caught (our auditors have been great but automotive is a small percentage of our business). We have always worked with our customers on which measurements we would perform the R&Rs on.

Sorry that I wasn't clear by feature, what I mean is every item inspected on the Control Plan including attribute. A couple examples (we are stampers) visual check for burrs or scrapmarks, measuring shear and break using a microscope. These are processing conditions for us pre-tumble, not critical to the customer.

The standard says "each type of inspection, measurement, and test equipment system identified on the control plan". The inspection and measurement part of this is why we were written up because we only had special characteristics on this part and rest of the equipment at the lab scope level, not on these part features.

I am by no means an expert on MSA. I'll take all the help I can get but my auditor was very firm about this.

We are doing MSA on every Critical Characteristic, but certainly not on ever feature identified in the CP.

Aside from satisfying this requirement, we are also doing family studies for gauges used on FCA and GM Products.

Not sure where this interpretation comes from about doing for every feature.....pls indicate.

 

[Golfman25]

Re: How many of you are Certified to IATF 16949

We are doing MSA on every Critical Characteristic, but certainly not on ever feature identified in the CP.

Aside from satisfying this requirement, we are also doing family studies for gauges used on FCA and GM Products.

Not sure where this interpretation comes from about doing for every feature.....pls indicate.

MSA for Critical characteristics is reasonable. But read 7.1.5.1.1. It requires MSA's for each type of inspection measurement and test equipment identified in the control plan. So if you have a non-critical characteristic identified in the control plan that you check with a caliper, you need an MSA for that. If you have something generic, like a visual inspection for marks, dings or whatever and you say you use your eyes, vision, etc. -- you'll need an "MSA" for that as well. You can try to group things. So if you have a critical dia. and a non-critical dia. you may be able to use the same MSA. Fun stuff.

 

[PruAngie]

Re: How many of you are Certified to IATF 16949

MSA for Critical characteristics is reasonable. But read 7.1.5.1.1. It requires MSA's for each type of inspection measurement and test equipment identified in the control plan. So if you have a non-critical characteristic identified in the control plan that you check with a caliper, you need an MSA for that. If you have something generic, like a visual inspection for marks, dings or whatever and you say you use your eyes, vision, etc. -- you'll need an "MSA" for that as well. You can try to group things. So if you have a critical dia. and a non-critical dia. you may be able to use the same MSA. Fun stuff.

We can utilize the family study for devices that measure non-critical dimension/features.
That's what I do, but of course, for Ford parts, you must get their approval before pursuing this route, which most of us in this forum already know.