Notifying Previous Certification Body of Client Transfer

[ComplianceCaptain]

I have had a strange situation where I am looking to gauge common CB practice.

I have a client that refused a UKAS observation audit and then refused to engage with us. As a result we have initiated the derecognition process, but are unable to derec as the client has already transferred to another CB. IAF MD 2 states that when transfers occur the receiving CB must notify the previous CB to inform them of the fact. This hasn't occurred. If it had we would have notified them we were about to derecognise them and informed them of them breaching the T&Cs. Not only did they CB not contact us, I assume that they obtained the previous report and corrective action plan, directly from the client.

So the question is - do you do your due diligence when onboading a client and check that they haven't been dumped by a previous CB due to not fulfilling the requirements to certify?

 

[Ed Panek]

You were going to delist them under your certificate, but why did they switch from you to another? Did they sense trouble?

 

[Sidney Vianna]

So the question is - do you do your due diligence when onboading a client and check that they haven't been dumped by a previous CB due to not fulfilling the requirements to certify?

I think you will be disappointed. The overwhelming majority of CB reps, here at The Cove, are lurkers and voyeurs. They are too afraid of engaging in discussions here.

As for your question, according to your post, the registrant was trying to avoid a witnessed audit, the Accreditation Body (assuming the onboarding CB issued a certificate under the same accreditation) should invalidate the new certificate. Willfully circumventing a witnessed audit represents grounds for revocation of the certificate as you did. So, while the previous CB can do very little, the AB can do a lot in terms of penalizing the offending organizations.

As for the transfer of certificates protocol, yes the new CB should have asked the proper questions before agreeing to a transfer, but as management system certification became a low cost commodity, there are many bozos out there in management capacity of CB’s totally uneducated, incompetent and/or corrupt, deliberately bypassing the rules.

 

[ComplianceCaptain]

You were going to delist them under your certificate, but why did they switch from you to another? Did they sense trouble?

We were going to delist them as they refused access to our accreditation body. We were going to enforce our T&Cs and they jumped before we could do it.

 

[ComplianceCaptain]

I think you will be disappointed. The overwhelming majority of CB reps, here at The Cove, are lurkers and voyeurs. They are too afraid of engaging in discussions here.

As for your question, according to your post, the registrant was trying to avoid a witnessed audit, the Accreditation Body (assuming the onboarding CB issued a certificate under the same accreditation) should invalidate the new certificate. Willfully circumventing a witnessed audit represents grounds for revocation of the certificate as you did. So, while the previous CB can do very little, the AB can do a lot in terms of penalizing the offending organizations.

As for the transfer of certificates protocol, yes the new CB should have asked the proper questions before agreeing to a transfer, but as management system certification became a low cost commodity, there are many bozos out there in management capacity of CB’s totally uneducated, incompetent and/or corrupt, deliberately bypassing the rules.

Totally agree with this. I have notified our AB that the client has refused and transferred, including new NB name. I have followed our impartiality requirements. No longer my problem...

 

[Ed Panek]

You have two variables. The Client and the new CB. Both have an incentive not to engage with you. I would maybe put forth effort here, but if your boss asks you why you are working on that, what is the answer?

 

[ComplianceCaptain]

You have two variables. The Client and the new CB. Both have an incentive not to engage with you. I would maybe put forth effort here, but if your boss asks you why you are working on that, what is the answer?

I am the boss

 

[Ed Panek]

I am the boss

Where does this issue rank in your work priority list?