Major Nonconformance Criteria

[Randy]

A good competent auditor gets up from his/her chair and goes around to the clients side of the table to see things for their perspective. These stinking standards are nothing more than the blueprint of a house the client (organization) gets to build and it's their choice as to the color of the paint, floor coverings and wallpaper.

 

[ChrisM]

Thank you for your quick feedback - didn't expect any feedback this quickly since it's holiday weekend in the U.S....

Agreed to all of it... with regards to the auditor competency (this 3rd party auditor), it was in our opinion that she may be book-smart, but did not have practical hands-on knowledge of manufacturing process.

So where is the auditor's "competence"? I've not been in the automotive industry for a number of years but one of the requirements used to be that a CB auditor had to have relevant quality management experience within automotive manufacturing. May be worth in your complaint raising the issue that the auditor appeared to lack real-world experience, and could they provide evidence of such experience

 

[Randy]

May be worth in your complaint raising the issue that the auditor appeared to lack real-world experience, and could they provide evidence of such experience

BINGO!!!!

Works the same for Aerospace.

 

[Golfman25]

WAG - sounds like an NSF auditor. If so, you’re screwed. Appeal, complain, whatever, but don’t expect much. No way you had 11 majors. Missing a single part of an element isn’t a major. Missing the whole element is. Good luck.

 

[Randy]

I'm voting for a contract auditor looking to make a revisit and pad the paycheck. Might be both a competence and ethics issue.

 

[John C. Abnet]

Thank you for your quick feedback and insight.

I will sit together with my colleague on Tuesday after Labor Day and proceed for the appeal process even if there's a time constraints. You are right, we have a right to appeal as an auditee. While many auditors we've seen in the past were more polite and willing to learn what we do (and many times it have been value-added experience), some wanted to push their opinions instead of going with the standard and not willing to listen (maybe temperament issue?). We had a very bad auditor one time and not only complained to the CB, but also appealed the NCs, yet the CB did not react quickly, so I had to go to IAOB to complain. This and the bad schedule management at the CB (high turnover at client services), we left that CB and switched to the current one in 2018. For the most part, we were very satisfied with the current CB until they dropped this bomb.

I guess whether the CB change is needed or not would be dependent on how this CB would react to our appeal and complaint. But meanwhile, we will go with the appeal process...we shouldn't have to go with what one auditor insists if it is not reasonably justified.

BTW....what is "MPA" ??

 

[Crimpshrine13]

BTW....what is "MPA" ??

Manufacturing Process Audit...

 

[SpecialSp]

Manufacturing Process Audit...

How did you appeal go?

 

[Crimpshrine13]

How did you appeal go?

They combined internal auditor competency and 2nd auditor competency together (merged into internal auditor competency), dropped auditor mistake on MSA data, changed MPA not reviewing PFMEA from major to minor, but everything remained the same. Originally 11 majors, changed to 9 majors and 1 minor. I'd still say that it would raise a red flag as to why previous audits only found 2 or 3 minors and suddenly 11 majors (none of them was a repeat of previous findings), but who knows what the CB or IATF thinks.

The complaint to IATF Ethics Point resulted in corrective action and training at CB, and CB credited the questionable expenses.

Not exactly the way we wanted (plus the audit report still contains so many typos and incorrect items, but they cannot make a change since they already submitted it to IATF), but at least we voiced our opinions and did not let the auditor do whatever she wanted.

 

[SpecialSp]

They combined internal auditor competency and 2nd auditor competency together (merged into internal auditor competency), dropped auditor mistake on MSA data, changed MPA not reviewing PFMEA from major to minor, but everything remained the same. Originally 11 majors, changed to 9 majors and 1 minor. I'd still say that it would raise a red flag as to why previous audits only found 2 or 3 minors and suddenly 11 majors (none of them was a repeat of previous findings), but who knows what the CB or IATF thinks.

The complaint to IATF Ethics Point resulted in corrective action and training at CB, and CB credited the questionable expenses.

Not exactly the way we wanted (plus the audit report still contains so many typos and incorrect items, but they cannot make a change since they already submitted it to IATF), but at least we voiced our opinions and did not let the auditor do whatever she wanted.

Unfortunately, some Auditors have a big egos and are arrogance. they should be fired for their behavior. A good Auditor should help the company to grow up and implement what really is needed in the company. i think that some of them just need to simply vent their frustration.