Major Nonconformance Criteria

[Crimpshrine13]

Unfortunately, some Auditors have a big egos and are arrogance. they should be fired for their behavior. A good Auditor should help the company to grow up and implement what really is needed in the company. i think that some of them just need to simply vent their frustration.

I agree that the audit process should be a value-added experience, and some good auditors we'd seen had shown us that and I really appreciate these auditors, but I think part of the issue with many auditors with attitude is the pressure and high expectations and requirements of IATF, and compressed schedule with CBs (because they do not have enough auditors due to the stringent requirements for maintaining IATF third-party auditor certification). However, the auditor we'd seen in the last renewal audit rarely audits (because she's a veto power and is auditing only to maintain the certification), so it even wasn't the either of them (perhaps it was personality and behavioral issues with this specific auditor). And I agree that these auditors with bad attitude and ethics issue shouldn't be auditing, but with the shortage of IATF auditors, I highly doubt they'd fire them only for that (and to the principles of IATF, not penalizing the specific personnel but correct the systemic issue with training and discipling).

 

[Randy]

A good Auditor should help the company to grow up and implement what really is needed in the company.

Well you're wrong. A good auditor maintains objectivity, impartiality and provides unbiased feedback as to what is observed or experienced without interjecting personal hopes, wishes, likes, wants, dreams or desires.

 

[Crimpshrine13]

Well you're wrong. A good auditor maintains objectivity, impartiality and provides unbiased feedback as to what is observed or experienced without interjecting personal hopes, wishes, likes, wants, dreams or desires.

I think his word "helping" would be a bit misleading, but either way being audited should be a value-added experience, without having to deal with bad attitude from the auditor. Some auditors lack the people skills and/or communication skills and do not fully communicate why what he/she is seeing is not conforming to the standard or clarify. I've seen a few auditors including the last one with this trait, and these auditors did not rephrase and clarify when we or other auditees on the shop floor couldn't fully understand what they were talking about or did not listen to what we were having to say. These, we had to appeal after the audit and have them correct the report because they wouldn't listen to us and had evidence wrong on the reports.

But, as you said, the auditor still should maintain the objectivity and impartiality in the audits, which is required per Audit Scheme book. All auditors (whether 1st-party, 2nd-party, or 3-party) also should have people skills and good communication skills. Without these skills, auditors may miss important information.

 

[Jen Kirley]

Registrars will sometimes use terms like "partner with you" and aspire to help the clients on their growth journey, but as Randy said this soon becomes a matter of going father than we should. We are not allowed to consult, but there are plenty who would claim we are doing just that. Yes we should be adding value, but verifying conformance is still supposed to be the limit.

Internal auditors are a whole different story; are as welcome to help the organization grow as the management allows.

Second party (supplier) auditors can, and usually are asked to "help the supplier grow" but this can drive the suppliers into a bitter relationship if we ask for more than what the standard, specifications and our contracts call for.

 

[Golfman25]

Registrars will sometimes use terms like "partner with you" and aspire to help the clients on their growth journey, but as Randy said this soon becomes a matter of going father than we should. We are not allowed to consult, but there are plenty who would claim we are doing just that. Yes we should be adding value, but verifying conformance is still supposed to be the limit.

You want to add value?

Get in. Look at what is important. And get out with as minimal disruption as possible. If there is an issue raise it in a competent matter so that the client can resolve. Understand the clients business and stay away from the minutia.

 

[Jen Kirley]

You want to add value?

Get in. Look at what is important. And get out with as minimal disruption as possible. If there is an issue raise it in a competent matter so that the client can resolve. Understand the clients business and stay away from the minutia.

That would be about right.

 

[Randy]

stay away from the minutia.

I think some Accreditation Bodies might tell you different.

 

[Golfman25]

I think some Accreditation Bodies might tell you different.

They can tell me anything they want. Doesn't make them right, or smart for that matter.

 

[Jen Kirley]

They can tell me anything they want. Doesn't make them right, or smart for that matter.

Smart or not is in the eyes of the beholder, but the accreditation bodies are within the International Accreditation Forum association while you are not.

 

[Randy]

Doesn't make them right, or smart for that matter.

Whatever, but it does make them in charge with suspension/revocation rights in some cases.