PPAP Requirements for Tool Repair or Refurbishment

#1
Understanding that A PPAP is required when production of a new product or part is planned and when there is any significant change to a product or process, what is the actual requirement for a PPAP when a tool is repaired or refurbished and there is no change to the product or process?

We have suppliers that submit Level 2 PPAPs to us upon request. We have suppliers that supply an ISIR with dimensionals and parts. What I am looking for is what the actual requirement is. Is there a point in a repair where it becomes a significant change? Are we asking too much of our suppliers or not enough?

I should mention that these are our tools manufactured at the supplier and the supplier is running production parts off of the tools.
 
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Miner

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#2
This is covered in section 3 of the AIAG PPAP manual, and the requirement is to notify the customer who will then determine whether to require PPAP.

Example 2: new or modified tools, dies, molds - perishable tools are specifically excluded. This only applies to tools that can be expected to influence the final product

Example 3: upgrade or rearrangement of existing tooling/equipment - This specifically excludes normal maintenance, repair or replacement of parts for which no change in performance is expected and post repair verification activities have been established.
 
#3
This is covered in section 3 of the AIAG PPAP manual, and the requirement is to notify the customer who will then determine whether to require PPAP.

Example 2: new or modified tools, dies, molds - perishable tools are specifically excluded. This only applies to tools that can be expected to influence the final product

Example 3: upgrade or rearrangement of existing tooling/equipment - This specifically excludes normal maintenance, repair or replacement of parts for which no change in performance is expected and post repair verification activities have been established.
Thanks for the quick reply.

In our case, there is no change at all to the tool. It is wear that has shown a trend in the quality of the product. The only repair will be returning the tool to it's original condition. In this case, based on what you are saying, we should not require a PPAP from our supplier to make the repair.
 

Miner

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#4
Without specific details, this appears to be what is called routine maintenance, which would not require a PPAP. However, you are the customer, so you make the rules.
 
#5
Without specific details, this appears to be what is called routine maintenance, which would not require a PPAP. However, you are the customer, so you make the rules.
Thanks again. A big part is whether "our" customer will require a PPAP or not from us. There is nothing in the contract that is different than the AIAG requirement. We of course want to put our quality first and reduce risk. But, at the same time, balance that with cost and timing. Trying to put a standard around that is very difficult except putting the general statement in there that "The customer can request a PPAP at any time." I am starting to see more and more PPAP fees from suppliers. It helps to have this forum to bounce seemingly simple questions off of when the "gray" areas come into play.
 

Miner

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#6
I am starting to see more and more PPAP fees from suppliers.
It is hard to fight these charges if you have an existing supplier and you suddenly add such a requirement, but you can proactively handle this with new suppliers, or when you renegotiate a contract. Simply add PPAP requirements to the contract and tie PPAP approval to your company's payment for tooling. If the supplier cannot demonstrate via PPAP that the mold they had made can produce product that meets spec, you don't pay them for it. I found out at a previous company that the suppliers that complained the loudest had the most difficulty proving their product met the requirements.
 
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