PPAP Requirements - Laboratory results and IMDS system

[btapp]

We don't do a ton of PPAP's here so I have a few questions. I submitted our PPAP and it was rejected.

Lab test results? I submitted the certs that we receive from our material suppliers? Lab Accreditation?

We are not regular users of the IMDS system. Any good documents to walk us through this?

Thanks,

Brian

 

[Jim Wynne]

Welcome to the Cove, Brian

Lab test results? I submitted the certs that we receive from our material suppliers? Lab Accreditation?

It will help if you tell us the exact reason(s) the PPAP was rejected. There are material test results and performance test results. Which was the problem, and what was it that the customer didn't like?

We are not regular users of the IMDS system. Any good documents to walk us through this?

I don't IMDS either, but there are folks here who do. Tell us what the issues are, and I'm sure someone will help.

 

[btapp]

Thanks for the warm welcome.

We are a small manufacturing company that has expanded into the automotive arena i.e. PPAP requirements. We are ISO certified but not TS/QS.

Anyway. The customer said the following:

Dimensions submitted on the dimensional results page without results?
Here do I need to insert the test date, Qty. and can I say "see SPC print out" since we ran 100 parts per cavity for them and sent the actual SPC print out?

Next unclear point is the IMDS. I am not real clear on this piece. Can you explain it and also let me know how to satisfy this requirement on a level 3 PPAP? We are producing a vent filter.

Last but not least the PPAP asks for Material certs, lab test results, and lab accreditation. We do not do design so I included the supplier certs here but that must not have fit the bill.

It sounds like we are missing administrative type items.

Thanks again for tolerating my lame questions!

Brian

 

[CarolX]

Thanks again for tolerating my lame questions!

Brian

Brian - sorry I can't help you, but plenty of folk here who can.....and don't worry about the lame question....no such thing.

Welcome to the Cove!!!!

 

[btapp]

Brian - sorry I can't help you, but plenty of folk here who can.....and don't worry about the lame question....no such thing.

Welcome to the Cove!!!!

Thanks very much, you guys are great. I was about ready to throw in the towel!

 

[Jim Wynne]

The customer said the following:

Dimensions submitted on the dimensional results page without results?
Here do I need to insert the test date, Qty. and can I say "see SPC print out" since we ran 100 parts per cavity for them and sent the actual SPC print out?

Generally, any kind of report (dimensional, material and performance tests, e.g.) should include the specifications (including tolerance) and measurement results. Whether or not you can refer to the SPC printout is up to the customer. Some want a separate dimensional report.

Next unclear point is the IMDS. I am not real clear on this piece. Can you explain it and also let me know how to satisfy this requirement on a level 3 PPAP? We are producing a vent filter.

I'm sure someone will pop up here pretty soon with IMDS help. Stay tuned.

Last but not least the PPAP asks for Material certs, lab test results, and lab accreditation. We do not do design so I included the supplier certs here but that must not have fit the bill.

For material test reports, look at page 5 of the 3rd Edition PPAP manual for the requirements. I'm not sure what lab test results you might be referring to. If there are performance requirements, then you're expected to have test results for them, and evidence of accreditation of the lab performing the testing. The accreditation evidence is called "Qualified Laboratory Documentation."

Thanks again for tolerating my lame questions!
Brian

Not lame at all; sometimes the PPAP requirements aren't exactly self-explanatory. You're always welcome to come here for help, and someone here will be happy to assist, but it's always best to talk to your customer if you're not sure what they want.

 

[knight_sirk]

Anyway. The customer said the following:

Dimensions submitted on the dimensional results page without results?
Here do I need to insert the test date, Qty. and can I say "see SPC print out" since we ran 100 parts per cavity for them and sent the actual SPC print out?

SPC has different purpose.
Dimensional Results are evidence that dimensional verifications required by the design record and the control plan have been completed and results indicate compliance with specified requirements.
Try referring to I.2.2.7 Dimensional Results & Appendix C of the PPAP Manual.

Next unclear point is the IMDS. I am not real clear on this piece. Can you explain it and also let me know how to satisfy this requirement on a level 3 PPAP? We are producing a vent filter.

What was the reason for denial?
You can check it at the Recipient data of the sent MDS.
Just click "view" to show the company data and the reason for denial.

For more info, try the IMDS users manual. It's free at their site.

Last but not least the PPAP asks for Material certs, lab test results, and lab accreditation. We do not do design so I included the supplier certs here but that must not have fit the bill.

What was the content of the Supplier Cert?
Consider also Environmental Test Results from Supplier
if there is a requirement.

 

[Howard Atkins]

Welcome from me as well.
The IMDS is a complicated system and there are some threads here.
PPAP requirements - Supplier's supplier's quality certificate and IMDS documentation and search for IMDS.
As for the function and lab tests, if you used an external Lab it must be accredited to ISO 17025.
What material are you using, normally for metal and Plastic the suppliers certificate is enough.
Are you using the standard forms, if not you can find them here with all the other forms Partcertall_6.15 3rd ed constants.xls
Hope this helps

 

[Jim Wynne]

What material are you using, normally for metal and Plastic the suppliers certificate is enough.

It's true that most customers will accept the material supplier's "cert" for basic materials, but those documents usually don't meet the PPAP manual requirements. This may be a case of a customer that expects the supplier to actually follow the instructions.

 

[antoine.dias]

IMDS basics

Thanks very much, you guys are great. I was about ready to throw in the towel!

Don't throw in the towel.

Look at : https://www.mdsystem.com/html/data/training_en.pdf

This is training material which is available for free on the website of the IMDS.

Afterwards, if you have more specific questions, you are welcome.

Best regards,

Antoine Dias