Transition from ISO9001 to AS9100D: O&G to Aerospace

[Tomballd]

Hello Forum,
I am currently in the process of building our ISO9001/APIQ1 QMS into an AS9100D system as well. The reasoning should be obvious with the decline in oil prices, industry instability and thirst for diversification (Oh and the CEO wants it done also). So here are a few starter questions.

1) Is the easiest route to just add to the existing QMS (QM/Procedures/Work Instructions/Forms) by adding the additional AS9100 requirements in and possibly identifying them as aerospace requirements?

2) Since we do not currently build anything for aerospace but intend to ASAP and need records for about 3 months to document manufacturing, how do I go about obtaining drawings or CAD files of an aerospace product to start working on and building records? I am looking at GrabCAD.com and seeing some promise, but obviously we will not be doing design/development to start as we are a job shop, so will making a random part be sufficient since we have no design documentation?

3) Would it be acceptable to just use the documentation and record requirements on an oil and gas part we already make and use that for audit purposes

4) I believe it is totally acceptable to separate out our quality requirements based on product type, obviously we only want to build our O&G equipment to API Q1 standards and not incorporate the extra strenuous requirements or AS9100 on a piece of oil and gas dumb iron.

Help me out here guys, what the best game plan to get this done ASAP? I have already started with the QM and also bought the AS9100 all in one document package from IHS so I Can compare verbiage, is this infeasible to think I could get certification by Q3 of 2021 if we have an accredited 9001 system?

Thanks,
Danny in Houston

 

[Sidney Vianna]

The context of work in commercial and military aerospace is very different. Just to give you a hint. Do you have any idea how to quantify and estimate the work involved with a First Article Inspection a la AS9102? Some machining work could have tolerances in a tenth of a thousand of an inch; is your production and inspection hardware capable?

I understand that the business owners might be looking for alternative markets, but the aerospace market is also depressed. I doubt an AS9100 certificate would open opportunities for a supplier with ZERO history in aerospace, when HUNDREDS of very good suppliers with DECADES of performance in the industry are also scrambling for business.

But, good luck.

 

[Ralba]

There is a bit to discuss here.

1. Integrated QMS vs. Separate QMS is an organizational decision that very much depends on how you operate and how your QMS is set up. We are AS9100, ISO13485, and of course ISO9001. Ours are all integrated, and every Standard Operating Procedure applies to all of our certifications. I have seen others who have it broken up based on the standard. I prefer mine, but that is probably because I set it up.
2. What requirements in the AS9100 standard are you trying to address with this change specifically?
3. You are demonstrating your QMS, not your industry. It does not matter where your jobs come from, it matters what controls and processes you can demonstrate in the audit.
4. While you can separate your quality requirements if you have a separated QMS based on product type, you must take extreme care in doing so. It is very hard to consistently step up quality in a controlled manner if you are not doing it constantly, and I have seen a lot of backsliding in systems that only do their higher quality sometimes. Remember that the controls given in the AS9100 system are purposeful and HELPFUL if you apply them to your business in good conscience. For example, our purchasing process only applies counterfeit protection to jobs requiring guaranteed supply chains. However, we apply our T&C's and control of external suppliers ubiquitously, regardless of the job.

I came into this industry from a different industry (plastics to electronics) and from TS16949, and implemented it here and passed our audit in 9 months. However, I have also led a TS16949 implementation and I had 100% support from the CEO. YMMV

All in all, I would say you would need to examine your company and upper management to see if they are willing to apply the change as a business system to help the company improve, or if they just want it done ASAP exclusively to gain access to jobs in industry. If it is the latter, that is a nightmare scenario and sounds very painful. It would be difficult to get that implemented in time by yourself for sure.

 

[Tomballd]

The context of work in commercial and military aerospace is very different. Just to give you a hint. Do you have any idea how to quantify and estimate the work involved with a First Article Inspection a la AS9102? Some machining work could have tolerances in a tenth of a thousand of an inch; is your production and inspection hardware capable?

I understand that the business owners might be looking for alternative markets, but the aerospace market is also depressed. I doubt an AS9100 certificate would open opportunities for a supplier with ZERO history in aerospace, when HUNDREDS of very good suppliers with DECADES of performance in the industry are also scrambling for business.

But, good luck.

This is a very valid point, I will have to lead business development to the professional sales guys. While the market is down for aerospace it has to come back at some point, and that is why we are choosing to pursue this now. Can you give me the 10 mile high overview of the AS9102 FAI process?

 

[Tomballd]

1. Integrated QMS vs. Separate QMS is an organizational decision that very much depends on how you operate and how your QMS is set up. We are AS9100, ISO13485, and of course ISO9001. Ours are all integrated, and every Standard Operating Procedure applies to all of our certifications. I have seen others who have it broken up based on the standard. I prefer mine, but that is probably because I set it up.

It seems I could create a duplicate QMS that includes our API Q1 and ISO 9001 system but with the supplemental requirement's of AS9100 included, than we could differentiate orders by quality plan that spell which certification requirements would be needed.

1. What requirements in the AS9100 standard are you trying to address with this change specifically?

Since we are certified to 9001 any additional requirements spelled out in AS9100 would need to be added to our existing system.

1. You are demonstrating your QMS, not your industry. It does not matter where your jobs come from, it matters what controls and processes you can demonstrate in the audit.

This is true and why I would like to differentiate what quality requirements are dictated per product since the majority of our products over the next year will be oil and gas related (threading, completions, drilling etc)

1. While you can separate your quality requirements if you have a separated QMS based on product type, you must take extreme care in doing so. It is very hard to consistently step up quality in a controlled manner if you are not doing it constantly, and I have seen a lot of backsliding in systems that only do their higher quality sometimes. Remember that the controls given in the AS9100 system are purposeful and HELPFUL if you apply them to your business in good conscience. For example, our purchasing process only applies counterfeit protection to jobs requiring guaranteed supply chains. However, we apply our T&C's and control of external suppliers ubiquitously, regardless of the job.

This is a valid point and something that would require careful consideration thanks!

I came into this industry from a different industry (plastics to electronics) and from TS16949, and implemented it here and passed our audit in 9 months. However, I have also led a TS16949 implementation and I had 100% support from the CEO. YMMV

All in all, I would say you would need to examine your company and upper management to see if they are willing to apply the change as a business system to help the company improve, or if they just want it done ASAP exclusively to gain access to jobs in industry. If it is the latter, that is a nightmare scenario and sounds very painful. It would be difficult to get that implemented in time by yourself for sure.

Fortunately my CEO is VERY involved and willing to do what it takes, unfortunately since the downturn I am the sole resident in the QA department, the QA Director : /

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Ralba]

Fortunately my CEO is VERY involved and willing to do what it takes, unfortunately since the downturn I am the sole resident in the QA department, the QA Director : /

The upper management support makes a huge difference. For what its worth, I am also the only resident of the Quality Department, so I know what it is like.

Ironically, the ******** satirical document mocking the standard actually helped me get a grasp of the intent of the clauses, though it is for the previous revision. After I got the basic intent of the clauses, I did process mapping, and a careful reading of all of our SOPs to see what I needed to do.

I wish you luck, this board definitely helped me with my implementation, so I wouldn't hesitate to come back to Elsmar for clarification on the details of the standard.(read as "opinions"--people here do not always agree haha)

 

[Tomballd]

I will have to search that out! Thanks again for the input, will keep this thread up to date with progress.

 

[John Predmore]

I wanted to mention, the AS9100 standard fully contains the clauses of ISO9001, and all added clauses appear in bold text. So for the cost of purchasing an AS9100 standard you can quickly see what are the added requirements. There are quite a few guidance documents and recorded webinars on the industry website IAQG.org in the Supply Chain Management Handbook. Once you register, access to SCMH is free.

 

[Tomballd]

Awesome, I will sign up and have a look. I did notice that the AS9100 requirements were in bold which is quite helpful since the 9001 stuff is already built.