United Technologies Aerospace OEM Mandating AS9100 Certification by June 30, 2004

[Sidney Vianna]

In a letter dated February 7th, United Technologies told their Aerospace suppliers that they are requiring accredited certification to AS9100 by June 30, 2004.

I believe that this is the first AS9100 mandate for accredited CERTIFICATION from a major Aerospace OEM.

Boeing had told their existing suppliers that they were STRONGLY ENCOURAGING them to attain certification and was only mandating AS9100 certification from NEW suppliers.

Does anybody know if Airbus requires their suppliers to be EN9100 certified?

 

[BadgerMan]

Originally posted by BadgerMan
Sorry, no experience with Airbus requirements.

Well, I quess that is going to change!

I received a request yesterday from Airbus (they are a small, indirect customer of ours) to host a three day audit of our QMS in September. Their agenda states that they will be auditing to the requirements of AS9100a.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Does anybody know if Airbus requires their suppliers to be EN9100 certified?

Now I can answer that question myself: Yes, Airbus does require suppliers to be certified to 9100 and the information to be entered in the OASIS database no later than April 2005 Check page 11 of this pdf file IAQG (International Aerospace Quality Group) & Airbus Supply Chain

 

[Marc]

Sidney, do you see this as a growing field? I've checked lead auditor courses and I believe it's Stat-A-Matrix which had a course 3 weeks after I did the 14001 course. They cancelled that class - spoke with the gal and she said not much demand. The next one scheduled is in Seattle this June a co-effort of the ASQ. Last I spoke with the gal no one had signed up for June yet.

this link will probably go dead in a while, but for now:
Stat-A-Matrix Lead Auditor Training for the Aerospace

I wonder how big that supplier group is. I assume auditors will be at a premium.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Marc, I believe that a high percentage of Aerospace suppliers will have to get certified to AS9100/9110/9120/9003/9006, as applicable. Some OEM's are already mandating it. However, we already have a good number of Aerospace Experienced Auditors qualified. I believe that, last count I saw in the OASIS database, there were over 450 AEAs in the World for a total of 900+ certified suppliers. Also, I think that the demand will be "localized", ie, like most of the Automotive suppliers are in the Mid West, and most of the QS/TS work happens there, I believe that, for AS, most of the work will be in the East and West Coasts, with some pockets in between, such as Wichita, etc . . .

 

[Tom W]

Similar issue - we have some aerospace customers - mostly military work, we are starting to get a lot of questions about NADCAP registration (National Aerospace and Defense Contractors Accreditation Program). This includes AS9100. Has anyone had experience for this - we are a heat treater and they have parts that apply to that specifically. We are looking into it seriously, but have some concerns.

Where do you draw the line on return for investment? Current sales volume is 1% of total sales would be impacted. Cost of NADCAP is similar to QS or TS.

Some of our big customers (Aerospace - like Eaton and Bell Helicopter) have required it by the end of the year while others (Parker - Hanifin) are thinking about it. Tricky thing is that only one registrar (PRI) can do these audits (that is a monopoly in my book). Costs have come down recently but still not competition.

Any comments on this topic as well would be appreciated.

 

[howste]

Sidney, do you see this as a growing field? I've checked lead auditor courses.....

It sure seems to me that the demand is there. I personally have already taught three AS9100 lead auditor courses this year, and will be teaching three more in the next month. One registrar I do work for is pushing auditors with aerospace experience to get up to speed and qualified as AEAs because the demand is there.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Similar issue - we have some aerospace customers - mostly military work, we are starting to get a lot of questions about NADCAP registration (National Aerospace and Defense Contractors Accreditation Program). This includes AS9100. Has anyone had experience for this - we are a heat treater and they have parts that apply to that specifically. We are looking into it seriously, but have some concerns.

Where do you draw the line on return for investment? Current sales volume is 1% of total sales would be impacted. Cost of NADCAP is similar to QS or TS.

Some of our big customers (Aerospace - like Eaton and Bell Helicopter) have required it by the end of the year while others (Parker - Hanifin) are thinking about it. Tricky thing is that only one registrar (PRI) can do these audits (that is a monopoly in my book). Costs have come down recently but still not competition.

Any comments on this topic as well would be appreciated.

Tom, please note that (based on my understanding) the PRI group involved with NADCAP audits is separate from PRI Registrar. You are correct to mention your concern over a single source for NADCAP. However, please note that, as part of the process to be NADCAP accredited (they use this term), you need to have an acceptable Quality System. If you are already AS9100 certified by another registrar, PRI/NADCAP should accept the approvals, if done by an AS9100 accredited Registrar.

Suggest you browse the NADCAP site. Check this too Supplier Survey Results - 18 September 2003 (from the PRI/SAE)

 

[peterd]

Hi,

Back to original question, Airbus are mandating the approval of all suppliers to the AS/EN9100 series of standards. They are one our major customers and we just went through the approval before Christmas.

Seems to be more and more companies are also mandating here in England, including BAe systems, GKN Westland and I think Raytheon Jets. Also a lot of the tier one suppliers and using this is in place of ISO9000:2000 for aerospace suppliers.

On the NADCAP one I believe that PRI are the only people who can audit against this standard. I used to be in heat treat as they were introduing this and had a course by their lead auditors which seemed to indicate that this was the case. They would then flow down to the OEM's with the results of all audits.

As said before it does appear to be a monopoly for PRI and the fees are huge - four/five days per approved process and £4000 for the privelege. Also does not remove the need for customer product audits. Also from experience the people mandating it aren't going to being approved themselves - a definite 'does as I say not as I do' siutation.

Peter

 

[Marc]

Can anyone tell me how many actual aerospace companies there are? I can see Boeing and Airbus and can think of a couple others.

And... How far down the supply chain is AS9100 being pushed?